Kennell Estates Vineyard & Winery

[AlFulchino]

let them grow as long as they can even if they run into the next vine(s)....believe it or not but they grow thicker than if you cut them at the halfway point between vines and then grow laterals....their innate goal is to be a vine and climb some tree, so if they think that shoot has free run then it knows what to do for its survival and health

looking really GOOD!

 

[grapeman]

One thing you might do to help split the top cordon both ways is after it grows past the wire like it is about a foot or so, cut the tip back to the wire. That way it will form laterals a few buds back from where you cut it. Let those grow and after they get two or three feet long take the best end two and go each way with one on each side. Then keep tying those down and let them run like Al said. That will form your cordons for next year.


They are looking great. I assume those are the ones a couple years or so old?

 

[fivebk]

Rich, all these vines in the photos are just in their second years growth. They have almost caught up in size to my 3 Edelweis vines that are a year older.

I have cut several vines like you said and they are starting laterals. It's always nice to be able to get answers to questions when one starts second guessing what they are doing.

My Vignoles vines have not quite reached the middle wire yet. I can see by comparing them to the others that they are not nearly as vigorous. They may take an extra year to get them where I want them.

BOB

 

[grapeman]

Bob the Vignoles aren't quite as vigorous, but more importantly are quite a bit later in the season than the others. At Willsboro where I have them and others, the Marquette for instance are almost touching the ground from the top wire at six foot while the vignoles have grown 12-16 inches. By mid-summer they catch up.


I thought maybe the vines you showed were only second year, but I thought I would play safe. Not everyone has vigor at their sites like we do. I'm getting frantic trying to get the rest of the trellis wires up and get the vines on them. Some of the ones I put on wire last week are up to the six foot wire, and those are Mn 1200 a naturally less vigorous variety.


They look great.


You can do like Al says also, but that only grows one side and that can sometimes become dominant. By terminating it at the wire, you can get the laterals to grow the same size to form next years cordons.

 

[AlFulchino]

yep, i am wrong, i was just assuming the basic rule of thumb

 

[grapeman]

There is no no right or wrong. You definitely want to let them keep growing and not stop them, but in order to get both sides going this year, by making that one cut at the wire, he can get two cordons to form. Give them the balance of the year to size up after that.

 

[fivebk]

Good morning everyone,

This morning I went out and worked in my little vineyard. ( tying up vines, trimming suckers etc. ) I found three leaves , low to the ground, on one vine that I think show signs of decease , but I don’t know what I’m looking at or how to treat it.

Here is a pic of the leaves and some of the rest of my vineyard

BOB

 

[grapeman]

Five Gold Stars for Bob!


As long as you are using a preventative spray program, don't worry too much about a few leaves. I could be disease such as downy or also could be a nutrient deficiency which can show up on older leaves as the new growth pulls nutrients from them to make the new growth. They look great, so unless it spreads, it shouldn't be anything to fret about.

 

[R Ziegler]

Bob,


I made a post back on July 1 about some vine issues I am experiencing called; "Vine Issues - Please Help!!!".
Al and Rich posted some good links in there to help determine what type of action that I may need to take. Like you it has been very wet here this year, andI just need to start spraying.


The first thing Al asked me was, "Have you been spraying any fungicide this year?", and the second was, "Have you gotten a soil test done?".
My answer for both was, no. I was going to start that weekend, but it up and started raining again.


Good Luck, and I bet Rich or Al will make a post in regards to your problem in the near future.


edit: HA HA!!! Rich chimed in before I even finished my post.


here is a link also. http://grapes.msu.edu/index.htm

 

[AlFulchino]

well Rich got it covered as usual...but i do have one comment.....'boy do you keep that place neat and clean, my hat is off to you.... '

 

[grapeman]

Hey Bob I have a question for you. On your GDC, are you doing two long arms alternating sides with the vines or a 4 way spit? I think I am seeing two arms on one side. I'm not sure which one has the advantage over the other. With mine I am 6.66 feet apart with the vines and am splitting four ways- two trunks, one going high and the other on the lower side-splitting two ways each. That way I have 4 - 3 foot plus cordons per vine.

 

[fivebk]

Rich, I have two long arms alternating sides. When I was deciding on a trellis system all pics I found for gdc system had the vines alternating.

Since I have the long arms, How long should each cordon be next year?
Right now my 3 Edelweis vines have vines growing 14-16 ft each way on the top wire.
My 2 year old frontenac Gris vines are 10-12 ft each way and the St. Croix and Brianna are just slightly shorter.
All the vines seem to be growing at a rate of 6-8 in every 5-6 days.

Rich I really need to get an understanding of what kind of spray regiment I need to be doing. ( What kind of sprays, for what reasons, where can I generally purchase them. length of intervals between sprayings ) pretty much everything because I am somewhat overwhelmed with it all. I understand that a spray regiment for you in your area would vary somewhat from me here in the midwest, but I don't even know where to start. I need to have at least a little grasp on this before any disease decides to set in because I do not want to loose what I've worked this hard to get started.

My Dad, his Dad,and his Dad were all farmers, I chose to be an Auto Tech, but was raised on a farm and learnt to care for the crops we raised.

As you have probably already figured out I do not have a spraying plan in place



BOB

 

[grapeman]

Bob I will try to put together a basic spray plan for you at some point soon, but for now I will just hit a few points.


First off, there aren't a ton of insect pests to worry about. Grape Flea Beetle (steely beetle), Rose Chafer, Japanese Beetle, Grape Berry moth, Skeletonizer and a few others. Only spray if the damage gets bad or lots of insects are present. Sevin works well, but is an indiscriminate killer so only apply iff absolutely necessary.


Then for diseases, you will need to worry about phomopsis, black rot, downy mildew, powdery mildew and botrytis. They all have their own times of the year and weather conditions to set them off and you need to get familiar with those. It generally only takes one or two fungicides to control all of them present at the time, so it isn't that bad.


For your area you can get the Midwest Spray Guide. Here we have the New York/Pennsylavania Guide. I will get you the links later.


We will get you on the right path soon.


You are doing a great job and we want to see you keep it up.

 

[fivebk]

Thanks Rich for taking the time to help. I know that you are already incredibly busy and I hate to bother you.

The information you, Al, and others like you offer up so freely on this site is greatly appreciated.

BOB

 

[R Ziegler]

Here is the site I was looking for earlier - I find it pretty useful. It is a canadian agro site, but it has great discriptions and useful pictures. Along with the timeframes when one needs to be aware of when the issues may arise, plus a few other things.
I hope this worksfor you.


http://www4.agr.gc.ca/AAFC-AAC/display-afficher.do?id=1210281691267&lang=eng#black

 

[grapeman]

That is a nice concise web site. Lots of good color photos and times to be on the lookout. The dates may be a bit behind Bob's but should be similar in pattern.

 

[fivebk]

thanks for the info

BOB

 

[fivebk]

When should leaves start to dry up and fall off the vines? Several of my vines are showing signs of bottom leaves drying up. We have had a few days now of very hot weather 95-98 with a heat index of 115. Humidity hovering around 75-80% Could this be a nutrient deficiency? Would it hurt to fertilize them a little?Or am I just getting paranoid????

BOB

 

[grapeman]

It is likely just a result of those leaves being older and the hot weather. Unless a lot of leaves are yellowing, I would refrain from fertilizer this time of year. If it continues, you could put a small amount of a foliar fertilizer on to make a quick correction, but it is unlikely to be needed.

 

[AlFulchino]

lets see a picture so we can see if its just the oldest or its creeping up the vine...if it is then i would recommend water in conjunction w some fert