Other Kit wine that compares to commercials wine.

[jsiddall]

I have been making wine since around 2010. So far, after about 40 kits made, I must say that there are only a few that come close to what I like to drink commercially. I must say that I am a lover of big bold reds with mouth puckering tannins and lots of body.

Out of all the kits, the red mountain cabernet trio from cellar craft is the one that is the most closely tasting to commercial in my opinion.

I am transitioning to making wine from fresh grapes for this reason.

Thanks for the input. Out of curiosity, what price point do you like for commercial bold reds?

Also, it seems that kits are "conservative" on oak, tannin and acid (some would say soft) in an attempt to achieve broad drinkability. Did you ever try adding extra of any of those? If so did they more closely align to a commercial example?

 

[LeChat]

Thanks for the input. Out of curiosity, what price point do you like for commercial bold reds?

Also, it seems that kits are "conservative" on oak, tannin and acid (some would say soft) in an attempt to achieve broad drinkability. Did you ever try adding extra of any of those? If so did they more closely align to a commercial example?

I am a relatively budget minded wine drinker. I usually stick to less than 20$ per bottle. Most often in the 10-15$ range.

I did a fair amount of tweaking including barrel aging, adding raisins or real wine grapes, adding finishing tannins, adding oak cubes. Several kits, I did all of the above.

Although the tweaks do improve the wine, I still felt that it fell short in the department of structure, mouthfeel and finish.

I did two batched of fresh grapes so far and both offer better mouthfeel and structure than any kit wine I have made.

 

[tonyt]

Thanks for the input. Out of curiosity, what price point do you like for commercial bold reds?

Also, it seems that kits are "conservative" on oak, tannin and acid (some would say soft) in an attempt to achieve broad drinkability. Did you ever try adding extra of any of those? If so did they more closely align to a commercial example?

I generally add some assortment of tannin and oak to all my kit reds. With that said my experience is that nothing improves kit wines like a barrel. Even if you only do a few kits per year I think it's your best tweak.

As far as kits that best mimic commercial bottles I offer up the Valpolicella Ripassa, RJS Cru Select. I say mimic because this seems to taste very true to a Valpolicella. I do this kit every year and have always been pleased with the results.

 

[markb1983]

For what ever reason, I replied several time to this damn thread and my response doesnt seem to have posted. So, I willl try again.

Do you think a barrel is the best way to turn a kit wine into the closest thing possible to a commerical? I have thought about making a cab and adding it to a neutral barrel for 18 months.

 

[Boatboy24]

I run my red kits through a 23 liter Vadai for 3 months and I think it makes a huge difference, along with added tannin.

 

[ibglowin]

Yes. Lots of threads and post on just that subject. 18mo in a neutral barrel for a kit wine? Seems like overkill especially if its a small 23L Vadai barrel.

Do you think a barrel is the best way to turn a kit wine into the closest thing possible to a commerical? I have thought about making a cab and adding it to a neutral barrel for 18 months.

 

[tonyt]

Yes what glowing said. And i think Four months is enough time in a small barrel.

 

[geek]

I run my red kits through a 23 liter Vadai for 3 months and I think it makes a huge difference, along with added tannin.

you're really tempting me to get my first wine barrel....

 

[tonyt]

you're really tempting me to get my first wine barrel....

I love that you already concede that there will be MORE.

 

[markb1983]

That's interesting I would have guessed that time so short would not be as beneficial. Thanks!

 

[ibglowin]

Small barrels (23L or 6G) have a much higher ratio of "wine to wood" than say a full size barrel. They therefore do the magic "microxidation" at a much higher rate. 3-6 months (once they are broken in) is a really good sweet spot. This also means that your SO2 will go to zero in a much quicker timeframe. You will have pretty much zero SO2 by 3 months in fact.

 

[SouthernChemist]

I love that you already concede that there will be MORE.

Go big or go home!

 

[geek]

Small barrels (23L or 6G) have a much higher ratio of "wine to wood" than say a full size barrel. They therefore do the magic "microxidation" at a much higher rate. 3-6 months (once they are broken in) is a really good sweet spot. This also means that your SO2 will go to zero in a much quicker timeframe. You will have pretty much zero SO2 by 3 months in fact.

and testing free So2 will be another investment to make

 

[NoSnob]

That is both excellent news, and also distressing news. I too just tried a split of my 2013 Cellar Craft Showcase Cabernet Red Mountain, 1 year old next week, and it was still the worse than any $10 CDN Cabernet Sauvignons I have tasted. There are some odd flavors and odors that make it hard to enjoy. My wife took one sip and wouldn't drink any more. This was one of three "big red" kits I made around the same time at a local FoP. All three are similar in terms of flavor and aroma.

So I am left trying to reconcile your positive experience, and many others like you who have made this kit, with mine. Is it possible the procedure and timeline while making the kit can have a big effect on the outcome? Certainly the FoP uses the 6 week timeline, and probably a generic winemaking process, but could that really make a significantly different end product?

I would like to hear any feedback on how closely instructions were followed, and what if any tweaks were made, from people who have made enjoyable kits that compare well to commercial wines.

I made my RMC by the book but aged it in carboy for 3-4 months before bottling. Some have said the RMC is characterized by a chalky mineral taste plus a kind of orange overtone like Grand Marnier. Initially I did taste the apparent orange notes, which seemed to change over time. The so-called orange became more subdued and overall it attained a very nice smoothness. The other thing I note is that the batch varied a bit. That is, different bottles from the same batch seemed to mature at a different rate.

These differences in results from one winemaker to another could be explained by technique variations, type and amount of top-up wine, or handling and storage differences. Once bottled I store mine in a 58F wine cabinet with controlled humidity and less than one degree temp variation.

As others have said, try to be patient and see if this does not surprise you positively in a year or two. I expect improvement as well.

NS

 

[markb1983]

That makes sense about the smaller barrel and micro-oxidation rate. What I have been doing is bulk aging for a year. I recently purchased my barrel and introduced the wine at a very slow rate. 6 week for the first and 4 months for the second. Im going to put my barolo in next for 6 months.

Thanks for the tips. I am glad i didnt age it for a year or so as i intended to

 

[Boatboy24]

you're really tempting me to get my first wine barrel....

You really should get one.

 

[bkisel]

I'm so happy that before starting this hobby my favorite go to wines were from Liberty Creek @ $57 US (and some change) for a case of 6 1.5L bottles. [Guess that would make it a $5.00 bottle of wine and actually not bad for the price.] EVERY kit I've made, even my lowly RJS VdV kits, has produced wine better than what I was buying for myself to drink at home.

 

[Elmer]

My WE Selection Barolo kit is in its 4th month residency in my neutral barrel.
I also added some med toast Hungarian cubes.

At last taste it was better than any commercial wine I have bought


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making

 

[Bacci]

A few comments after reading additional posts; I've made both Red Mt. Cab and Rosso Fortissimo aged them 18 mos or so and they were way overrated compared to this RM Trio (no tweaks other than bulk ageing and sadly only 4 bottles left from 2012, even sadder you can't get it no more). The other kits I've made where color, mouthfeel and taste were close to commercial is CellarC Arg Malbec (tweaked with RC212, black currants and Fr Oak) and still available. The CC LR Sonoma Pinot Noir (RC212, GC tannin and all Fr Oak) has better color and body than any commercial PN I've had plus great earthiness & red berry notes. Even sadder, with the Vineco LR offerings for 2014, looks like they don't come with grapepacks. But if you like Gewurztraimer, the RJS Cru Select German Gewurzt (used D47 yeast) maybe the best value for $100, a quick drinker and Washington state knock-offs can't touch it. Not surprised it had won 2 gold medals in 2014.

 

[Bacci]

I have been making wine since around 2010. So far, after about 40 kits made, I must say that there are only a few that come close to what I like to drink commercially. I must say that I am a lover of big bold reds with mouth puckering tannins and lots of body.

Out of all the kits, the red mountain cabernet trio from cellar craft is the one that is the most closely tasting to commercial in my opinion.

I am transitioning to making wine from fresh grapes for this reason.

ditto! I'm currently looking at frozen grape pails from grapesdirect.com or somewhere that will deliver crosscountry. But do still need a couple of things; 20 gal fermenter for 2 5gal red pails, punchdown tool, large mesh bags for pressing into my bucket w/spigot and of course, MLF testing. Sounds simple anyhow, right.