Liquid level detector project

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Just thought I would share my recent efforts with building some equipment. My winemaker friend had a problem with pumping out his primary ferment tanks where he often overflowed his barrels. I guess when you run a small winery there are lots of things distracting you and those mistakes can eventually add up to real money. He made a circuit with two stainless steel probes that would be inserted into the bung hole of the barrel and when they got wet would indicate that the wine had reached a certain level. This would trigger a relay that would cut the pump. I am impressed with his work on the equipment including designing the circuit, making a printed circuit board and finding the components to do the logic. The problem with the design is measuring liquid conductivity is not highly repeatable. This equipment is a bit fickle. I looked for a way to better measure liquid level. There are quite a few methods. I found a level sensor that is a float with a switch but it seemed difficult to sanitize. Also capacitance sensors are used but I did not feel like studying how to interface to it. The surprising solution I found while reading some trade magazines is an optical liquid sensor. This sensor uses an LED that transmits infrared light that is reflected by a prism back towards a photo detector. When the sensor is in air, the light is reflected back to the detector, but when the prism gets wet, the angle of light refraction changes and the light no longer reflects back to the detector. Ingenious! I tweaked his circuit to accept this sensor change and the level detector now works like a champ. The optical liquid detectors I am using I found on eBay. There are other sources but they can be spendy depending on the options desired. I thought it was a surprising solution and wanted to make winemakingtalk users aware of it.

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I agree thats always a tough one especially when barrels are stacked up on top of each other. I have a remote switch on my pump and fill until wine spills out the top. What you're talking about would be handy. It sounds like you'd still be a few gallons short though before being topped up. For topping up my barrels I have a ss watering can with a very long spout that was custom made just for doing this that is very handy.
 
I repurposed one of the stainless steel probes as an adjustable support for the optical sensor. It should be able to be positioned very near the top. The pictures do not show that well. I am taking the kit over to the winery today and I will see how it works.
 
If it was me who was designing a level device I would use pressure plates to establish the level..

Ie you know that the barrel should hold a certain volume of wine when it is full. So what you would do is multiply the volume needed by the specific gravity of the wine to give you the mass in grams of wine that your plate should measure when it is full. Thus by knowing the mass of the wine in the barell and knowing the gravity of the wine you can infer what your volume is..

Of course, their are all sorts of clever tricks you can do with devices similar to what snafflekid mentioned as well.
 
Ah...how about just going to Home Depot and buying a moisture alarm for a few bucks. When the liquid hits a certain point an alarm goes off and you shut off the pump. I actually use a timer. I time the amount of time it takes me to fill the first barrel and then set it to go off 15 seconds before that so I'm ready.
 
It would all depend on how the moisture alarm actually worked... Ie, if it got splashed on during the filling procedure it would suck if it told the pump to stop... My guess, is that it would all depend on how the moisture alarm worked. As far as using a timer, that is also not a bad method so long as you know the flow rate of your pump and the flow rate stays constant.
 
If it was me who was designing a level device I would use pressure plates to establish the level..

Ie you know that the barrel should hold a certain volume of wine when it is full. So what you would do is multiply the volume needed by the specific gravity of the wine to give you the mass in grams of wine that your plate should measure when it is full. Thus by knowing the mass of the wine in the barell and knowing the gravity of the wine you can infer what your volume is..

Of course, their are all sorts of clever tricks you can do with devices similar to what snafflekid mentioned as well.

Seth, the problem that occurs to me with your proposed method is that you would need a scale for each barrel! I like snafflekid's solution very much.
 
A full barrel is heavy! The liquid is around 500 lbs. That would require a heavy duty scale. I was moving a stack of them with a pallet jack and almost tipped them on me. I saw my life flash before my eyes.
 
I did a quick search for liquid level sensor...there is 100,000 of them.some fully electronic, some manual, some both.
It seems as if the easiest, and probably the least expensive is
a float level indicator sensor...that will shut off a valve,are pump, and can be isntalled with a warning device when it gets to the correct level that you want.
 
If I had a machinist, here is what I would do:

1) Get a sealed glass (or steel) bulb on a long thin tube.
2) Run the feed tube and stem of long thin tube through a stopper, or whatever fits on top of the secondary.
3) The long thin tube is then run through guides, and the top sits against a SPST momentary switch.

Note: Have something that keeps the long thin tube from dropping through the stopper. Maybe an eye on the end that you can fit a cotter pin in.

When the liquid raises the bulb, it will depress the switch that you can use to signal to turn off the pump. The glass bulb below the stopper should be easy to sterilize.
 
Yeah, perhaps my idea would work just a little better for stationary setups.. Ie, commercial sized fermentation/aging vats.. Ie, easy way to get an exact level measure..
 
Had to post and run, but was thinking that something along the way that the fuel gauge would work. A simple float that would rise and hit a shutoff switch. You would have the thickness of the barrel to play with. Or then again, maybe this has nothing to do with what you are talking about, in that case, it sure is a nice looking fuel gauge.
 
In my experience, the best float-based level detectors are ones where the float pivots about a hinge, rather than moves vertically upwards. This eliminates the need to have the float slide freely along some guidepost, where it will often jam.
 
My first feedback system was an inverting op-amp. :D The biggest challenge is getting the level detector into the bung hole along with a pump nozzle. It is a squeeze. Many level detectors would work but for that one requirement.
 
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