Marechal Foch or Leon Millot

[VinesnBines]

I have both Foch and Millot. The observations are correct. Millot is wild in growth and tough to harvest due to the small tight clusters. It is productive; I got 173 lbs off 20 vines. Millot should be high wire because it insists on clusters all along the cane.

Foch needs high wire too and is productive but not as much as Millot; 325 lbs off 60 vines. The birds go wild for Foch so netting is a must.

Both have early bud break so late frosts are a danger. Both have a fair secondary crop. Both have good disease resistance.

I’m really impressed with the wines. I made a Foch 65%/Millot 35% blend in 2023 that is a winner. So much so that the batch is nearly gone. I left the blend on the skins longer than recommended but it worked out to good tannins and a woody, dark fruit aroma.

The 2024 crops were fermented separately; Foch was 12 days on the skins and Millot was 14 days on the skins. I have Foch in a barrel and Millot is in line for a barrel. I also have a Foch blend with Baco Noir. I’ll have to check ratios.

My take; grow both.

 

[Hazelemere]

Grow both. I made a wonderful field blend of 2/3 Foch and 1/3 Millot. They were harvested the same day. I’m so pleased, I plan to repeat. They did need MLF. I hope to barrel this year’s crop.
Note: The birds will attack Foch and Millot so be prepared to net early and often. I had to add more nets to my Foch zone nets.

retaste:

Marechal Foch 2023

Appearance - clear, inky purple

Smell - good clean nose of coffee, chocolate, roast duck, Chinese 5 spice, blackberries. I get a really interesting and different smell from it after I swallow it which I find to be unusual.

Tannin - good

Acid - good

Flavour - This has improved a lot. It is another wine that was un-labeled and un-sealed with "M" marks on the corks to identify it as a cooking wine. This is at least as good as my 2023 Regent which I rated as very good today no less. Another cooking wine that morphed itself into something special, picked at SG 1.094. Until I started using 71B yeast I couldn't get a Foch flavour that I liked. This is much better than what I have made in the past unblended by a mile. It is rich and complex. Right now I'd rate it as very good. Another treat after Regent 2023 which is also very good. I will label and seal this to age it as a premium red wine which I believe that it has morphed into. I should get ~32 bottles in 2025 and if I am lucky at SG 1.094+ to ferment destemmed and uncrushed with 71B/RC212 yeast with nutrient. Sometimes you get lucky, especially if you are patient.

Happy New Years

Wild things

You all make my heart sing

Wild things

Namaste

Klaus

 

[VinesnBines]

My 2024 M. Foch is barrel aging and early (two months in).is really developing well. I have great expectations for this wine.

I’ll be barrel aging the 2024 Leon Millot as well. I’m hoping it will be nice too.

 

[Hazelemere]

Black Iris Framboise 2024

This is 50% Black Iris Port with 50% Framboise - pitted wild cherries, dried elderberries, a bit of wild blackberry, homegrown organic frozen raspberries, Cassis liqueur, Chambord liqueur. Greek Metaxa brandy. I sulphited and sorbated it today. I also made a 15 bottle carboy of 2/3 Black Iris Port and 1/3 Framboise. So this wine is the left over of that blend which kills IMHO. This was sorbated with a bit of sulphite since I dropped the alcohol below 18% by blending in the raspberry wine. I'm guessing it is about 16-17% alcohol.

Here are my tasting comments:

Appearance - clear deep red purple

Smell - really good and intense lingering nose. I can smell it 6 inches away from my nose. This is an intense fruit bomb.

Tannin - good

Acid - good

Flavour - this is a deluxe ultra-fragrant dessert wine. I rate this as excellent. It has a really good aftertaste. I'll make an effort to let it age. Who would have thought wild cherries and raspberries?

 

[VinesnBines]

My 2024 M. G F och. Two months in the barrel and already aging beautifully. Nose of dark fruits and no acid bite. M LF and perfect brix (24) combined to make this one a winner. Note it was fermented on the skins for 12 days and with a submerged cap for 10 of the 12 days. Conventional wisdom is to press after 4 days on skins. But where is the fun in that?

 

[Hazelemere]

retaste:

Appearance - clear, inky purple

Smell - good clean nose of coffee, chocolate, roast duck, Chinese 5 spice, blackberries, borderline ripe Italian prune plums

Tannin - good high enough for this wine to age.

Acid - the acid is improving. This is very slightly acidic but not by much.

Flavour - This is decent and improving. As a house wine for my palate it is fine. I'd like to see how it ages when the acid drops. Right now I'd rate as "good", not very good or excellent but certainly good. I have 22 mature Marechal Foch vines and will try to make something at least as good as this going forward with RC212/71B yeast combos as SGs 1.092 or higher. I'm tempted to mix it with wild blackberries/dried elderberries and maybe even wild cherries on at least a part of it i.e. a battle of the bands.

Here is my mantra for all of you winemaniacs on this website: make wine like Van Gogh would paint.......try everything!

retaste of homegrown Marechal Foch 2023

Appearance -inky purple

Smell - a bit cold from a bottle out of my cooler - buckwheat, coffee, cocoa, Chinese 5 spice, plums

Tannin - good

Acid - slightly high but should drop as it ages

Flavour - this is decent but has a tannic aftertaste so needs time for the tannin and acid to drop. A few years in the bottle should do it.

 

[VinesnBines]

Tasting of M. Foch non- barrel (top up) and barrel (3 months). Both have dark fruit nose. The barrel has a deeper, more fruit and depth nose. Color is the same.. dark, deep inky. The flavor of the top up is good. Dark fruit, dry, low tannins but a little thin.
The barrel Foch (three months) has all the dark fruits, an earthy undertone, (fresh plowed ground) smooth finish, no acid and light on tannins. Finish tannins may give it a better backbone.

I’m loving Foch, maybe more than any of my other hybrids. As my daughter in law said at the first barrel top up - “this is dangerous”. I think 3 to 5 months will make this a winner!

 

[Hazelemere]

Black Iris Framboise 2024

This is 50% Black Iris Port with 50% Framboise - pitted wild cherries, dried elderberries, a bit of wild blackberry, homegrown organic frozen raspberries, Cassis liqueur, Chambord liqueur. Greek Metaxa brandy. I sulphited and sorbated it today. I also made a 15 bottle carboy of 2/3 Black Iris Port and 1/3 Framboise. So this wine is the left over of that blend which kills IMHO. This was sorbated with a bit of sulphite since I dropped the alcohol below 18% by blending in the raspberry wine. I'm guessing it is about 16-17% alcohol.

Here are my tasting comments:

Appearance - clear deep red purple

Smell - really good and intense lingering nose. I can smell it 6 inches away from my nose. This is an intense fruit bomb.

Tannin - good

Acid - good

Flavour - this is a deluxe ultra-fragrant dessert wine. I rate this as excellent. It has a really good aftertaste. I'll make an effort to let it age. Who would have thought wild cherries and raspberries?

retaste:

Appearance - clear deep red purple

Smell - gorgeous complex nose

Tannin - good

Acid - good

Flavour - absolutely stunning. I score it as a perfect dessert wine. This kills. Seriously it kills!

 

[Hazelemere]

retaste:

Marechal Foch 2023

Appearance - clear, inky purple

Smell - good clean nose of coffee, chocolate, roast duck, Chinese 5 spice, blackberries. I get a really interesting and different smell from it after I swallow it which I find to be unusual.

Tannin - good

Acid - good

Flavour - This has improved a lot. It is another wine that was un-labeled and un-sealed with "M" marks on the corks to identify it as a cooking wine. This is at least as good as my 2023 Regent which I rated as very good today no less. Another cooking wine that morphed itself into something special, picked at SG 1.094. Until I started using 71B yeast I couldn't get a Foch flavour that I liked. This is much better than what I have made in the past unblended by a mile. It is rich and complex. Right now I'd rate it as very good. Another treat after Regent 2023 which is also very good. I will label and seal this to age it as a premium red wine which I believe that it has morphed into. I should get ~32 bottles in 2025 and if I am lucky at SG 1.094+ to ferment destemmed and uncrushed with 71B/RC212 yeast with nutrient. Sometimes you get lucky, especially if you are patient.

Happy New Years

Wild things

You all make my heart sing

Wild things

Namaste

Klaus

retaste on what appears to be Marechal Foch day:

retaste:

Appearance - clear, inky purple. It is hard to tell if inky purple is clear!

Smell - good clean intriguing nose of coffee, chocolate, roast duck, Chinese 5 spice, blackberries, tobacco, buckwheat, sour licorice.

Tannin - good

Acid - good

Flavour - This was picked at SG 1.094 i.e. the grapes were ripe. This has improved a lot. I rate it as the best Marechal Foch I've ever made i.e. drum roll...........very good and would be thrilled to make this quality again using RC212/71B yeast combo with premium nutrient containing B vitamins followed by natural malolactic ferment and medium toast American oak cubes during malolactic ferment. I've occasionally tasted excellent Marechal Foch. This one comes close! I hope that I can make something this good again. What made this special is that I didn't use any chemical deacidification of the wine e.g. Acidex, potassium bicarbonate, or potassium carbonate, which based on my experience kills the wine. I think the key to making this wine and I have no idea why it mattered so much was using 71B yeast together with RC212 and a really good vitamin B containing nutrient followed by a natural malolactic fermentation with a medium toast American oak cube soak and then a 50 ppm sulphite dose on racking. We never, ever, ever, ever sulphite a red wine ferment unless the grapes that we destem are a train wreck. We never ever buy train wreck reds. If your reds are slightly moldy then add 1/2 tsp potassium metabisulphite per 3 lugs of grapes. Try not to buy crap! i.e. moldy grapes.

If you make Marechal Foch then consider RC212/71B yeast combos with vitamin B containing nutrients. If your grapes are SG 1.092+ you should get a really tasty wine or wine(s). I pick Foch if I can when wasps start feeding on them. They are hypersensitive to acid and tell me when the grapes are ripe. I hand destem all of the clusters to remove any wasp damage so I don't have to sulphite a primary ferment due to wasp damage.

Last words for all of you Marechal Foch growers:

Love the Foch you are with.

A Stephen Stills song.

Klaus

 

[Hazelemere]

My 2024 M. G F och. Two months in the barrel and already aging beautifully. Nose of dark fruits and no acid bite. M LF and perfect brix (24) combined to make this one a winner. Note it was fermented on the skins for 12 days and with a submerged cap for 10 of the 12 days. Conventional wisdom is to press after 4 days on skins. But where is the fun in that?

No acid bite !? You win! Brix at 24 is about as good as it gets for Marechal Foch. That is why it isn't tangy IMHO. I'd love to taste it. Sounds like you killed it! If I'm lucky if I can get 23 brix before the wasps go berserk on it at SG 1.098. So I will try to catch the queen wasps this year, with yellow jacket pheromone traps before they start a new hive and try to emulate what you made. What yeast(s) did you use to ferment your Foch. When you are in the mood or it is convenient please describe the flavour and smell of your (what sounds like killer) barrel Foch.. Everyone here can learn from your experience.

 

[winemaker81]

no acid bite.

Beth and I both used Lalvin 31 MLB this year. MLF for both my Chambourcin and Chelois went to completion, both have dropped tartrate crystals in the last few months, and both are like Beth's Foch, no acid bite.

I'm planning on using Lalvin 31 again next year.

 

[Hazelemere]

Beth and I both used Lalvin 31 MLB this year. MLF for both my Chambourcin and Chelois went to completion, both have dropped tartrate crystals in the last few months, and both are like Beth's Foch, no acid bite.

I'm planning on using Lalvin 31 again next year.

who is Beth.......................the Marechal Foch wizard?

 

[VinesnBines]

who is Beth.......................the Marechal Foch wizard?

Me! I started out in 2019 with 25 Foch vines. I added another 42 vines in 2020. I was discouraged and disappointed until 2023.
My first good Foch was a 2023 field blend of 75% Foch and 25% Leon Millot. I harvested at sg of 1.093, ph of 3.5 and used a blend of Bravo and D254. I left it on the skins for 12 days. MLF was with Lalvin 31. I didn’t have a chromatography test in 2023 so I guessed. I aged it in a carboy with Hungarian oak for roughly 8 months. It turned out very nice. Woody, earthy with dark cooked fruits. I had to hide bottles to age.

2024was a fantastic harvest. I fought the birds and the bees and harvested the Foch alone at sg 1.100, ph 3.41. I used a blend of Advante, Bravo and D254 yeast and left it on the skins for 12 days. Fermentation was outside with temperatures ranging from 70s F daytime to 50s F at night. MLF was with Lalvin 31. I had a chromatography test this year and the Lalvin 31 burned through in about three weeks. I racked some to a 10 gallon barrel on October 28. The rest is in beer kegs in a couple blends.

I’ll be topping the barrel on March 9 so I’ll update on taste. I added kmeta to the kegs last week and tasted the blends.

All the 2024 Foch is wonderful and no acid bite. It is becoming my favorite variety. The color is inky and the aroma kills with dark fruit.