Marquette versus Frontenac

[StevenD55]

Can anyone tell me reasons why to select one over the other variety?

 

[grapeman]

Marquette makes a pretty nice red wine and has a relatively short growing season need. Sugar levels get as high as Frontenac, but there is quite a difference in acid levels. Frontenac will typically have 25-50% more acid as Marquette. Frontenac also has a much stronger flavor to it and not always in a good way. Marquete is vigorous whereas Frontenac is VIGOROUS. I continue to plant Marquette but have no plans on planting more regular Frontenac.

 

[StevenD55]

Thanks.

The short growing season is good for where I live. Although this year was not bad all the way through October. I. planted 3 Frontenacs 5 yrs ago and they were stunted. So I transplanted them to a better location and they did very well. So I planted 7 more Frontenacs and 7 Marquettes. I was going to plant all Frontenac until I learned of the acidity. So now it's decision time.

Thanks for the input.

 

[Masbustelo]

Be sure to take a look at Petite Pearl.

 

[StevenD55]

Interesting looking grape. Sort of like my Valiants it seems but with potentially higher sugar it appears.

 

[TonyR]

Had Frontenac and Frontenac Gris , pulled them all because of the acid. Planted Petitr Pearl, acid levels are fantastic and the wine is not to bad.

 

[CTDrew]

I agree with the other posts Marquette is a much nicer grape to work with and results in very nice red wines for me. It has vigor but one pruning in season is all it needs to stay on track. A friend of mine with a commercial vineyard has it trained top wire cordon and he finds it doesn't need in season pruning trained like that.

Frontenac, for me, is hard to work with making wine and has been extremely vigorous for me too, needing several pruning pases during the growing season to keep it in check. Good thing I only have 5 vines of it.

 

[dorfie]

I also prefer Marquette over Frontenac for wine.
There is however the fact to consider, that Marquette is quite a bit less hardy than Frontenac, at least it is for us up here in ND. We get fairly consistent yields from Frontenac, and i wish the same could be said about Marquette.
I'm not sure where you are located Steve, but i know that Colorado ranges in hardiness zones from 2b-7a, which i quite a range. if you are near the lower end of the range i would advise you to take hardiness into account.
I also recommend Petite Pearl it has performed quite well for people up here, and wine made from it is pretty good.

 

[StevenD55]

dorfie,

I am east of Palisade in the Colorado River Basin. It can get stay -20 for extended periods in some years. I'm in sort of a Zone 4b I think for the most part. But, my neighbor had a great crop of Limberger's this year that's a Zone 6 grape. Some years, like this one, my Cab Sav produced. Some years, like last year, not even the Valiant's put on anything.

The Petite Pearl is tempting. But, are those grapes as small and compact on the clusters as Valiants?

Thanks.

 

[TonyR]

Don't know about Valiants, but the Petite Pearl is a small compact grape. 2 years ago ( last year BAD late frost) my Petite Pearl TA was 7.6

 

[dorfie]

dorfie,

I am east of Palisade in the Colorado River Basin. It can get stay -20 for extended periods in some years. I'm in sort of a Zone 4b I think for the most part. But, my neighbor had a great crop of Limberger's this year that's a Zone 6 grape. Some years, like this one, my Cab Sav produced. Some years, like last year, not even the Valiant's put on anything.

The Petite Pearl is tempting. But, are those grapes as small and compact on the clusters as Valiants?

Thanks.

ahh so you're in one of the variable places for temperature. Well then you can almost throw out my comments on hardiness haha, because like you said some years nothing will put on fruit if the winter's bad.
It has been almost two months since i was counting and measuring grapes, and i didn't personally measure the PP but i would say that i think they are and even smaller grape size than valiant. probably smaller cluster size as well, but might be near the same cluster size.
it is supposed to be fairly productive, not all of ours were in full production this year, so i can't comment specifically on that.
i would say that PP would be a good choice with the Marquette, i think that it is hardier than Marquette.
if i may, if you can grow Cab Sauv, why are you looking for these "super hardy" varieties? I am moving a bit out of my realm, because i'm less familiar with the warmer zone grapes, but why not look at some other grape varieties as well? Noiret or Chancellor perhaps? i don't have much knowledge on these, but i have heard good things about their wine. Just a thought to possibly consider.

 

[StevenD55]

dorfie

I had several Cab Sauv vines. One is doing ok after 5 years. One dies back to the base every year and the other died completely. So it's a little harsh for those.

Funny you would mention Noiret. I've been looking for those. Double A says out of stock. Do you know of another supplier?

Chancellor is one I know little about.

 

[StevenD55]

Don't know about Valiants, but the Petite Pearl is a small compact grape. 2 years ago ( last year BAD late frost) my Petite Pearl TA was 7.6

Worth a look it seems.

Thanks.

 

[ceeaton]

I had several Cab Sauv vines. One is doing ok after 5 years. One dies back to the base every year and the other died completely. So it's a little harsh for those.

Funny you would mention Noiret. I've been looking for those. Double A says out of stock. Do you know of another supplier?

http://www.graftedgrapevines.com/shop-online2 has Noiret in stock.

Amazing that your Cab Sauv vines stay alive. We don't grow it around here because it is considered a Zone 7 vine. We are Zone 6b and it rarely gets below -5*F, and if it does it might be for one or two nights. The vineyard I got grapes from this fall had Cab Franc, Dornfelder, Noiret and Regent available. Most of those are Zone 6 hardy grapes (Noiret is a 5).

I would stick with www.nevinesupply.com and there hardier versions. I would hate to get an established/trained vine knocked back to the ground in a bad winter, I'd aim for as hardy as I can get.

I was thinking of planting a couple of Marquette vines but worry that they will be too vigorous around here and might stick with Cab Franc and Dornfelder.

 

[grapeman]

dorie

I had several Cab Sauv vines. One is doing ok after 5 years. One dies back to the base every year and the other died completely. So it's a little harsh for those.

Funny you would mention Noiret. I've been looking for those. Double A says out of stock. Do you know of another supplier?

Chancellor is one I know little about.

Check with Eric Ambers from The Grafted Grapevine. They currently list it as in stock. http://www.graftedgrapevines.com/shop-online2/interspecific-varieties-red

Well Craig beat me to that one since he apparently posted it as I typed it!

 

[ceeaton]

Well Craig beat me to that one since he apparently posted it as I typed it!

And where do you think I get all of my information? From your threads! Thanks for all the valuable information you share with us Rich!

 

[StevenD55]

Amazing that your Cab Sauv vines stay alive. .

It's nip and tuck where I am. In the Grand Junction area, Cab Sauv seems to survive ok. Must be the intensity of the sun during the day at our latitude or something. I also have a fairly steep south facing slope behind my vines that may contribute. I have some Jupiters that are Zone 5 that do pretty well closer to that hill. But further away, the Jupiters suffer a little.

Thanks for the contact info.

 

[StevenD55]

Check with Eric Ambers from The Grafted Grapevine. They currently list it as in stock. http://www.graftedgrapevines.com/shop-online2/interspecific-varieties-red

Well Craig beat me to that one since he apparently posted it as I typed it!

Thank you!

 

[grapeman]

Also if the Noiret does well there the Corot Noir likely will also and makes just as good if not better wine than the Noiret. Noiret has a peppery flavor, the Corot Noir a nice black cherry nose and taste as well as some nice soft tannins. I have made wine from both, but they both freeze too much for my comfort.

 

[StevenD55]

Also if the Noiret does well there the Corot Noir likely will also and makes just as good if not better wine than the Noiret. Noiret has a peppery flavor, the Corot Noir a nice black cherry nose and taste as well as some nice soft tannins. I have made wine from both, but they both freeze too much for my comfort.

So many grapes do little time and space.

Another one to investigate.

Thanks