Methanol / Methyl alcohol .... Question

[gonzo46307]

no, if you suspect you have ingested methanol, then you need to treat...some johnnie walker
... blah, blah, blah.

Red, Black, Green, or Gold?

I just need to know how much to budget.

Yah, I'm kinda on vacation this week.

Peace,
Bob

 

[manku007]

hello gonzo, sorry but I can't understand u, I cannot make it what u want to say or u r trying to. It going beond my mind, flying up from my mind

 

[kiljoy]

manku007,

You have absolutely nothing to fear by fermenting fruit, corn, or cane sugars. You can not make methanol by accident (in winemaking). It takes a laboratory and a chemist. One danger to be aware of is lead poisoning. Make sure to use glass or food grade plastic for your fermenters and you will be fine. The worst thing that you can do is make vinegar.

The 300 sick people were most likely caused by someone selling them methanol and telling them it is ethanol. Unfortunately, this happens quite often in countries where the regulation is non-existent or under enforced. In the United States, people get sick when they attempt to distill corn whisky (moonshine) and use improper equipment. They will use old car radiators which contain lead and traces of anti-freeze (glycol).

The old test for bad “shine” is to burn it. If it burns blue, it’s ok. If it burns yellow, it’s tainted.

P.S. Gonzo’s reference is to the color of the Johnny Walker whisky label.

 

[manku007]

Thanks kiljoy,

Thanks Kiljoy for ur suggestions and help, believe me or not u haven't killed my joy but u have raised it . Yes I think that is very right that if I m not using bad materials then nothing can go wrong, and if the recipes are well tested then there is nothing that methanol can be made .

Now I think if I want to make my wine I will be surely discuss that recipe with u guys and after that u can tell me that it is ok to make or not.

Thanks for each and every members who has helped me (or not )..... bye bye take care.

It is good that we can test it by burning it, I have study it in my old classes that ethanol burns with blue flame .

Any other suggestions are also welcome

IMPORTANT :- Do some kind of micro organisms are also responsible for producing methanol or not. I mean to say that if they occure in my wine jug accidently then can they cause the methanol as a result, or it is not possible. HOPE THAT U ALL CAN UNDERSTAND MY QUESTION.

 

[mixmix]

yes I'm very concerned about the methanol content in my wine too, and in future projects of plum distillation. So Ive gathered that only if using wood, grain or high pectin fruit would yeild enough methanol for concern.
BUT on the site "homedistiller" it says:

"Methanol is formed when fermenting beverages high in pectins - eg grapes and berries. Starting with a grain or sugar based wort, in a clean fermentor with a yeast culture from a well aereated source will result in small/none formed."

I thought that grain would produce the most methanol? So when he says that fermenting grapes produces alot of methanol, why then is wine ok to drink as is? (I mean without further purification) Is it because the methanol is in such small quantities?

 

[myakkagldwngr]

Exactly. "All" fermentation produces methanol and other chemicals, but in very, very low percentages.
The problem arises when these "low wines" are distilled into high alcohol contents.
That's when you have to understand what you're doing much better.
Think of it the same as when they process crude oil.
You start off with crude, and it's processed using heat, you get everything from kerosene, diesel, gasoline and all the other wonderful chemicals that we've come to depend on. Now at what percentages I'm not sure, but at different temps, they get a different product.
It's all there in the crude, it just has to be seperated out.

 

[mixmix]

ok I suppose thats why theres no distillation involved (just to rid it of methanol, not the water) in beer making or wine making...because the methanol content is inconsiderable.

BUT, then if you drank say a glass of wine, and a glass of spirit with the methanol left in but water taken out (the same ethanol dose), logically the methanol content would be the same in proportion to the ethanol, just the extra water in the wine would change. apart from the fact that different fruits would produce different amounts of methanol but not by much, that only leaves the conclusion that its the extra water in wine that means its ok to drink.
Think of it this way,
You take 2 bottles of the same wine, drink one of them.
distill the other one to get rid of just the water, and drink that.
the fact that youve distilled one of them doesnt change the ratio of ethanol methanol
so why would it be safe to drink the wine?

"Everything is poison, it all depends on the dose."

 

[Mud]

Just a couple comments on the info given out above regarding distilling: Alcohol will not boil off before water in a still. They boil off together in a varying ratio depending on the abv of the liquid. Working at atmospheric pressures you cannot produce any higher abv than 95.6%.

Methanol and ethanol cannot be separated in any sort of hobby still. They form their own azeotrope like water and ethanol. Fortunately the remedy for methanol poising is ethanol, so we're good.

The first liquid produced from a still contains, along with ethanol, acetone, methanol, and some other lower alcohols produced by any fermentation. It's often called foreshots. No one in their right mind would consider drinking it. It tastes and smells like, well, acetone. Just disgusting.

The burn test for moonshine has more to do with proofing it than anything. When it gets toward yellow it's probably below 50% abv.

 

[Minnesotamaker]

People have been making wine for thousands and thousands of years. I have never even heard of a case of methanol poisoning from this source. The only methanol poisoning I've heard of, is when someone drinks by accident, a methanol that was produced and distilled commercially thinking it was an alcohol they could drink.

If you make wine using traditional methods and traditional ingredients, you have zero chance of poisoning yourself with methanol.

 

[myakkagldwngr]

Only thing foreshots are good for are starting your charcoal and don't make the mistake of trying to pour more on an already hot pile of coals.

 

[mixmix]

If I was to do some distillation of lets say "plum water suger" then I would use a homemade still with a thermometer (where the vapor reaches the condenser or in the liquid to be distilled?) so as to get a more precise distillation. discarding the first 50 ml sounds a bit hit or miss to me.

so one would have to get the liquid up to the point at which the methanol boils (or acetone etc even though thats the first time Ive heard that, it sounds like you know your stuff) and no higher, untill no methanol comeout anymore, and discard? then bring up to ethanol boiling point and keep everything that comes out? maybe repeat the process a couple of times to purify further?
So even with a still with a thermometer, I wouldnt be able to separate methanol from ethanol? or just not to complete purity of the ethanol?
This seems confusing, and still cant see why distilling a bottle of wine would do you harm seeing as your only taking stuff away(H20), theres no chemical reaction happening.

 

[St Allie]

People have been making wine for thousands and thousands of years. I have never even heard of a case of methanol poisoning from this source. The only methanol poisoning I've heard of, is when someone drinks by accident, a methanol that was produced and distilled commercially thinking it was an alcohol they could drink.

If you make wine using traditional methods and traditional ingredients, you have zero chance of poisoning yourself with methanol.

it's not poisoning you have to watch out for.. high concentrations of everything in a wine.. once you remove the water.. depending on the initial ( high) SG.

once distilled.. watch out for blindness..

you are dead in the water at this point. It will literally kill you .


Allie

 

[kiljoy]

Moonshiners throw away the “heads” and “tails” when distilling. The highest concentrations of fusel alcohols are in the first bit that comes out and the last. One test is to burn some of it. If the flame is blue, you are OK, but if it’s yellow, then there is some bad stuff in there. However, methanol also burns blue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moonshine

 

[Mud]

If I was to do some distillation of lets say "plum water suger" then I would use a homemade still with a thermometer (where the vapor reaches the condenser or in the liquid to be distilled?) so as to get a more precise distillation. discarding the first 50 ml sounds a bit hit or miss to me.

so one would have to get the liquid up to the point at which the methanol boils (or acetone etc even though thats the first time Ive heard that, it sounds like you know your stuff) and no higher, untill no methanol comeout anymore, and discard? then bring up to ethanol boiling point and keep everything that comes out? maybe repeat the process a couple of times to purify further?
So even with a still with a thermometer, I wouldnt be able to separate methanol from ethanol? or just not to complete purity of the ethanol?
This seems confusing, and still cant see why distilling a bottle of wine would do you harm seeing as your only taking stuff away(H20), theres no chemical reaction happening.

Homedistiller.org has more information. I wouldn't bother with the forum. They'll just scold you for asking questions. But the main page has a lot of info. The Alcohol Library is a huge resource, too.