WineXpert Mezza Luna - to add glycerine or not?

[TemperanceOwl]

Hi, Brand-Newbie here!
I started my first kit on October 4 and have followed the instructions to a Tee so far. It's the WE Mezza Luna Red.
A couple of wine-making friends and the local homebrew shop owner have all advised me to add glycerine right before bottling to smooth out the finish, and give it extra body and legs. The WE website and some web searches have advised against it.
Based on the directions, I am planning to pull a sample and check for clarity this Sunday (14 days after de-gassing and adding sorbate, metabisulfite and chitosan) and if clear I can rack to a fresh carboy and bottle that day.
I have a one gallon and a five gallon carboy - I plan to rack to those two containers and bottle from there, and just for the sake of comparison, I'm going to leave the 1 gallon batch alone, and add glycerine to the five gallon batch and stir it in.
My question is, would I gain anything (clarity, additional de-gassing) by racking to the two containers, adding the glycerine to the one, and then allowing it to settle again for another couple of weeks before bottling? Or would I be better off leaving it alone in the 6 gallon carboy for another week or two and then rack and bottle all at once?
Thanks!! I think it's going well so far, and just don't want to mess up here at the last step.

 

[knockabout]

I decide if I want to add glycerin or not by adding a drop to a glass of the wine in question, stirring really well and taste comparison. I usually add a bit. I think it makes my wine taste better.

 

[peaches9324]

temperanceowl slow it down no need to add glycerine if you let it age in the carboy to let it integrate. And to bottle in 1 months time from when you started this kit is just asking for problems down the road for many reasons you'll be unhappy with the result. for example not clearing, not degassed and poor flavor profile Aging the wine in the carboy with the occasional addition of kmeta..it will basically degas and clear on its own and you will want to rack it again in 3 mos and at that time you can taste the wine then add a dose of kmeta And when you see all the lees left behind you'll be glad you didn't bottle yet! Forget about it for another 3 mos then do the same. And keep the carboy with airlock attached and make sure it has enough liquid in to avoid the nasties some use a like wine, water or kmeta solution for this, I use a kmeta solution to play it safe and keep the wine in a cool, dark, elevated place. welcome to the forum! goodluck! want some good advice? Keep reading this forum you can find any answer if ya can't find an answer feel free to ask

 

[knockabout]

I do let mine age in the carboy for 6 months before I test to decide if I'm going to add glycerin or not. Thanks Peaches I missed the very condensed schedule the op was following.

 

[David219]

Welcome, Temperanceowl! I would echo what peaches9324 wrote. Following the directions closely is a very good policy when first starting out. Once you have the knack of things, little tweaks and such are fun to try. But the bottling timing in the kit instructions is basically telling you the QUICKEST you can get it in the bottle, not necessarily the BEST time to bottle.

Time in bulk aging will really help the wine integrate and degas. There are many techniques/schedules people use for bulk aging. This might largely be dependent on how long they plan to leave it in the carboy, but having a plan to manage KMeta additions is important. I have a Vinmetrica that allows me to test it. Some simply add a specific amount of KMeta at intervals to make sure the wine is protected; having appropriate, safe levels of free SO2. You can search threads on bulk aging to help yourself develop your own plan and schedule.

I have never added glycerin to my wines. Your idea to try some with and without would be good so that you can compare.

If I were to share the biggest, most important, lesson I've learned in my time making kits (I've made around 30 kits now), it's that patience is rewarded. I wish I had bulk aged my early wine kit attempts more. I still enjoyed them, but they were not completely still...I never had a cork pop, but they had that little ring of fizz around the edge of the glass. Since I started bulk aging (and using the Allinone vacuum pump, which is another topic altogether!), my wines have been nicely de-gassed.

Good luck! Let us know how everything goes!




Sent from my iPad using Wine Making

 

[seth8530]

Well, I don't really make kits, but I would ONLY add glycerin as a last resort if I was you. Usually, if you got quality product things such as that arn't really needed. I am also in the bulk aging camp, I age all my wines for at least a year before I even think about bottling. Some, I even let go for longer.

 

[olusteebus]

Since we are on the topic of adding to soften a wine, Has anybody used Gum Arabic much. I got the impression it is better than glycerine.

I have used glycerin on muscadine wine and one other wine (I can't remember what kind). I know it really improved the muscadine.

I am considering splitting batches (5 gallon batches) add gum arabic to half for early drinkers and age the remainder for 6 to 10 months.

Anybody do that?

 

[peaches9324]

olusteebus funny you should mention that I was thinking about adding that to my home made banana/pineapple down the road just to try something other than glycerin I know it will need softened even after aging its been aging since April let us know how it goes. thanks!

 

[TemperanceOwl]

Thanks for all the tips and suggestions, everybody. I've been reading this forum a lot for the past month and have found it to be a really good resource.
You've all convinced me to back off a little and not rack this Sunday… the kit and the WE website both stress to rack it off the sediment within a month after fining, but I'll at least leave it another week to let it finish clearing, and then rack to the two smaller containers. Since this is my first one, I doubt I'll have the patience to give it months before bottling, but I'll hold off awhile longer. I don't have any way to test for KMeta (is that potassium metabisulfite?).

Once I get it out of the main carboy, I plan to start a second kit, and that one I'll try to age for a year or so without touching while I'm enjoying the first kit.

Is it odd that I'm already picking out my second kit before I've bottled and sampled my first one?

 

[knockabout]

Well, I don't really make kits, but I would ONLY add glycerin as a last resort if I was you. Usually, if you got quality product things such as that arn't really needed. I am also in the bulk aging camp, I age all my wines for at least a year before I even think about bottling. Some, I even let go for longer.

Seth, why add glycerin only as a last resort? I make almost all high end kits, barrel age, and don't bottle till &6 months, try to age for a year before starting to drink, but still find glycerin to smooth the finish? Thanks for your answer in advance.
Kim

 

[peaches9324]

NOPE! It just means your one of us now!

 

[seth8530]

Pretty sure glycerin can add an artificially sweet taste ( likely depends how much is used) and should for the most part not be a needed ingredient in wine. Ie, I would only use it to try and fix something that has gone a very dark and grim road. I am not sure on the timeline for most high end kits, but to give you an idea my frozen must pinot noir, chardonnay juice and second running Pinot Rose are all over a year old and are still in carboy. And, I plan to keep them all that way for at least another 6 months. So, if you are finding you are needing to use glycerin to smooth out the finish, you might want to consider aging more and letting more of the natural processes take you a bit further along before you start messing around too much.

Just to get you in line with my thinking. If your wine needs glycerin, I believe it a sign that their is something underlying that needs to be corrected and not covered up. I think that their is nothing wrong with fixing issues, using whatever is needed.. But all the same, I don't really think it should be part of your normal winemaking procedure.

I have no qualms with sulfites, sorbate, lyzozmes, yeast nutrient, and added tannins, but in my mind glycerin is not really in line with my wine making panagram. If you want more body in your wine, perhaps you should try using grape skins or perhaps try one of the yeast derived hull additions to try and get that to integrate with the wine. Ie, go to the route cause of what is causing the lack of body, instead of painting over it.

Just my thoughts, I do not mean to imply that using it is bad winemaking, but I just want to explain why I would only use it to try and fix something that did not work out or something.

 

[knockabout]

Thanks Seth, I appreciate the explanation. I have found I can only get my kits to a certaioint., but 18 months is as long as I have aged any as I have on,y been doing this about that long and have made about 20 kits. I have never made wine from grapes Yet!

 

[ibglowin]

Glycerine. It smooths out the finish, hides imperfections AND keeps you regular!

 

[seth8530]

Thanks Seth, I appreciate the explanation. I have found I can only get my kits to a certaioint., but 18 months is as long as I have aged any as I have on,y been doing this about that long and have made about 20 kits. I have never made wine from grapes Yet!

Yup, I am pretty sure you will eventually hit a point where your wine peaks and that is certainlly a function of what you started your wine off with.

 

[tonyt]

I sometimes add glycerin. I only do kits and have dome quite a few the past six years. I imagine that I add glycerin to one in four or five of my red kits. Usually when I am looking for a thicker mouthfeel or if I feel the tannins need to calm down. I add two to four ounces of glycerin per six gallons of wine. I add it during the month prior to bottling if I deem it necessary. I do find that kits with grape pack or dried raisins don't need the glycerin. I agree completely with knockabout:

I think it makes my wine taste better.

I have never added so much that I could taste it in any way, it's far more subtle than that and at even 4 ounces per 6 gallons you'd have to be really go to notice. My usual dose seems to be 2 to 3 ounces, only once or twice have I added four ounces to a carboy. In the beginning I did the bench test with drops per glass but now I add an ounce at a time to the carboy tasting after each ounce.

To what glowin said I would add that it adds a bit of body/mouthfeel and makes some wines approachable quicker. I don't add it often and I don't think it evil or wrong in any way. I do however understand and applaud those who strive to keep their wine as additive free as possible.

 

[TemperanceOwl]

Hi, folks. My Mezza Luna red is 6 weeks in (started on October 4). I racked it off the lees to clean carboys last weekend, degassed as well as I could with a whip, and I plan to leave it for at least another month to finish degassing before bottling. Since this is my first kit, I decided not to back sweeten, but just see how the kit turns out by design. But, I just tasted it (I couldn't help myself, I'm curious!) and it's kind of sour for my taste.

My question is, is this just a matter of how young it is and aging will soften the sourness, or is this the basic flavor of this wine, and no amount of aging will remove that? I know aging is key to a successful wine, but I'm not knowledgeable about exactly what happens with the flavor profile during the process.

Thanks for any insights!
By the way, I'm really surprised at how much more "still" it is today than it was just a week ago. I have hopes for it being ready to bottle the first week in December.
- Owl -

 

[sour_grapes]

Hi, folks. My Mezza Luna red is 6 weeks in (started on October 4). I racked it off the lees to clean carboys last weekend, degassed as well as I could with a whip, and I plan to leave it for at least another month to finish degassing before bottling. Since this is my first kit, I decided not to back sweeten, but just see how the kit turns out by design. But, I just tasted it (I couldn't help myself, I'm curious!) and it's kind of sour for my taste.

My question is, is this just a matter of how young it is and aging will soften the sourness, or is this the basic flavor of this wine, and no amount of aging will remove that? I know aging is key to a successful wine, but I'm not knowledgeable about exactly what happens with the flavor profile during the process.

Thanks for any insights!
By the way, I'm really surprised at how much more "still" it is today than it was just a week ago. I have hopes for it being ready to bottle the first week in December.
- Owl -

Last night, I opened a 14-month-old Mezza Luna Red. It was pleasant, albeit not awesome. The sourness and KT (kit taste) that typified its young taste were about gone.

 

[TemperanceOwl]

Thanks, Paul.
I was really hoping for awesome, eventually…
But it's nice to know that time can reduce sourness. Did you back sweeten yours?

 

[sour_grapes]

Thanks, Paul.
I was really hoping for awesome, eventually…
But it's nice to know that time can reduce sourness. Did you back sweeten yours?

No backsweetening or tweaks. It finished at 0.990 to boot.