Mosti Mondiale MM All Juice Castel Del Papa

[laneygirl]

Tonight, I began Step 3. I racked the wine into a clean six gallon carboy. I added potassium metabisulfite and potassium sorbate after mixing each with a little water and then pouring it in. The sulfites preserve the wine. The sorbate prevents refermentation. I used my power drill and drill stirrer previously shown in the photos above and stirred the wine in the carboy vigorously for several minutes to degas the wine. Degassing artificially drives off CO2 gas in the wine, which is a byproduct of fermentation. I then used my Vacuvin to further degas (the pump used to preserve wine). I will degas three more times over the next 24 hours. I'll try to take some photos of degassing tomorrow. After degassing, I will add 3 oz. of French house oak Stavin cubes, top up the wine, and let it age 2-3 months until sufficient oak taste is extracted. I will then rack again and add the finings.

Hi DFWino,


This is a great tutorial. I have a few more detailed questions about degassing. I tried the bottle shake/hear fizz test that Waldo gave me and I heard fizz. The good news is that I just got my Fizz X stirrer from George and after sanitizing it, hooking it up to my drill used it on the batch I was hoping to bottle. WOW!! A lot of gas came to the surface...very cool tool and technique.

Now, I have my vacuvin attachment on the universal carboy cap along with the little white cap on the other riser of the cap. I pumped it for several times, but nothing really seemed to happen.


I've used the vacuvin on a bottle of wine and can definitely feel the vacume being created due to less "air space" between top of wine level and the vacuvin attachment. What's the expected outcome after you degas and use vacuvin? Are the bubbles on the top of the surface supposed to disappear as you pump? Is the feelingof the vacuvin supposed to become more difficult as with a bottle of wine? How many times should I go through this process since this has been bulk aging for 6+ weeks? I added 1/4 tsp potassium metabisulfite before degassing (I keep want to call it defizzing

).


Any help on this would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Waldo]

laney, with the vacuvin, you pump it until you see the bubbles/foam rise out of suspension. If it is gas it will be the small, fizzzy bubbles, if the bubbles are large then the wine is degassed

 

[PolishWineP]

And, you will feel the pull like you do with a bottle of wine. Be sure that your cap is tight so you can create the vacuum. Watch the top of the sides for your bubbles.

 

[laneygirl]

Waldo and PolishWinep,
Thanks for the additional tips. So, the vacuvin doesn't actually suck the bubbles off the top??


The weird thing is that when I use the vacuvin there are no bubbles that rise up...even around the sides. But, like I said I did the bottle shake test and definitely got fizz and bubbles on the top.

 

[Wade E]

You must be loosing pressure somewhere as you should either get little bubbles (gas), or big bubbles which is just vacuum being created. Is there a way to use the vacuvin with just a bung?

 

[dfwwino]

Here's a photo with me using the Vacuvin pump and the carboy cap to degas the wine. The foam is CO2 exiting the wine:

 

[dfwwino]

After degassing was complete, I added 3 oz. of Stavin French Oak Medium Toast beans/cubes. The photo above is of the carboy with the oak cubes. The photo below is a close-up of the bag of oak cubes that was added;

 

[dfwwino]

Laney,


You will also hear the clicking when you adequately degas with the Vacuvin and remove all the surface air. My experience is that Vacuvin after using the drill stirrer sometimes draws a lot of CO2, sometimes not. I would just degas like Mosti Mondiale recommends. Four times over 24 hours. Some folks degas with a brake bleeder over several days. I'm not that ambitious. Edited by: dfwwino

 

[laneygirl]

DFW, Thanks for the pics. So, after you do the degassing you put the airlock back on? I hadn't picked that up from the other posts/pics and have been leaving it on with the vacuvin attachment.


Do you use the Fizz-X tool at each of the four degassing followed by the vacuvin process?


Thanks again for your help.

 

[dfwwino]

There is no correct means of degassing, as long as you degas the wine thoroughly. I have been using a combination of the drill stirrer and then vacuvin at each round of degassing for MM kits. I'm sure others have different methods. During the degassing, I leave the carboy cap with vacuvin nipple on the carboy until I finish degassing. I placed the airlock back on the carboy after completing the four rounds of degassing in 24 hours when I felt comfortable that I had adequately degassed the wine. I set the carboy aside with the airlock on for the next two months to age the wine on the oak cubes. I will check the oak level after one month to ensure I don't over-oak. I will rack off the oak cubes and then add the finings. So please note I have split step 3 in half because, rather than use the oak chips included with the kit, I have opted to use the Stavin oak cubes. I am adding the oak cubes after adding sulfites and sorbate and degassing, but before I do fining. It requires one more rack of the wine, but that also helps degas the wine. Edited by: dfwwino

 

[laneygirl]

Thanks DFW. That clarifies it for me.

 

[laneygirl]

I did come up with one more question...there's just always more to think about and know in this craft/hobby.

Two things: 1) Do you use the Fizz X at each of the 4 degassing rounds in the 24 hours?


2) Why do you leave the universal cap with vacuvin attachment on between degassing? It seems like you'd want to put the airlock back on so gas could actually escape vs. being reabsorbed into wine with no way to escape, assuming you have such a tight fit with the universal cap/vacuvin attachment.


Thanks.

 

[dfwwino]

Yes, I used the drill stirrer at each round. I just think it does a good job driving off gas by agitating the wine. While I agree theorectically some gas might escape between degassing rounds, I think it is negligible. The carboy cap is not a perfect seal. If you wanted perfection, you could add back the airlock. I had tossed my airlock from the carboy into cleanser and dried it after the racking. I sanitized a new airlock and bung 24 hours later. Also, I have been thinking about buying a large hose clamp (which you tighten by a screw) to fasten the carboy cap securely to the carboy neck. I don't think the cap provides an adequate seal for proper degassing.

 

[laneygirl]

I noticed that my carboy handles were interfering with the universal cap sealing and so moved them down further on the neck of the carboy. I could tell a noticeable difference in using vacuvin afterhaving thatbetter seal.
I think I'll add the airlock back on between rounds and just keep some sanitizer ready in a jug to keep both bung and universal cap clean so I can swap them out right away. I have to use a brew belt to keep my carboys warm enough (68 degrees F) and figure I can use all the help I can get in degassing the wine.


I noticed you use iodopher to sanitize and am wondering if you rinse afterwards or just shake the heck out of whatever you're using. I use that in homebrewing beer, but switched to K meta for wine making since it can be used to preserve the wine in addition to sanitize. I was more comfortable with droplets of that leftover than iodopher. Have you ever had a problem with weird taste from iodopher?

 

[Wade E]

68* is not a great temp to degas. The cooler the temp the more gas will be held back. While degassing you should be around 75*. If you raise the brew belt closer to the top I find that it keeps the wine warmer. Theoretically it really shouldnt matter but it does as I stir and take a temp and it is warmer this way. I have used it near the bottom and it will warm up to around to and when I put it near the top will go as high as 78*

 

[laneygirl]

Hi Wade,


Thanks for that tip. I've actually been told by someone else and have been practicing putting the brew belt at the bottom since the theory was that it would affect more of the volume that way. That has been what I have observed, but there could have been other factors contributing to variation.


I could use 2 brewbelts or a heating pad w/bungie cords...


I do all this work in my basement since I have a sink down there and plenty of space for carboys, supplies, etc. The cooler temperatures there are probably great for bulk aging and even the wine in the racks, but realize there are some downsides to it.


Maybe I'll have to switch to brewing beer in winter and making wine in the summer since the temperatures seem more suited for it.

 

[Wade E]

I think youll be fine just give it a little more time and effort to degas. Clarifying is better in these cooler temps then in warmer temps so that is a plus.

 

[dfwwino]

It has been a very long time since I have made a post. But I want update this post. I oaked this wine with stavin medium toast oak cubes for three months. I fined per the instructions about one month ago. This weekend, my friend Chuck and I bottled the wine. At almost nine months of age, the wine is outstanding. It is the one of the best kit wines I have tasted. Velvety smooth, easy to drink too much. No hint of KT. I bought this kit along with five friends, so I only get six bottles. I really regret that decision and wish I had 30 bottles. I heartily recommend the MM Alljuice Castel Del Papa kit.

 

[grapeman]

That's great it turned out super. Maybe you could bribe some of the others with a bottle of some WE wines that you can detect KT in. They might like them and you would get to keep more of the MM Castel de Papa.

 

[geocorn]

The MM Castel del Papa is one of my best sellers and one of my favorites. It has a very fruit forward taste.


By the way, dfwwino is a kit convert. He used to stay away from kits, but with the MM kits, he has had a change of heart.