WineXpert Moscato - with some tampering ;-)

[sour_grapes]

I'll be honest at the expense of eFor this reason, I made a video of my hydrometer in hopes you kind folks can look at it and help me understand what I'm looking at!

Nothing to be embarassed about!

I read your hydrometer as about SG = 1.072 (or 17.5 brix). This puts your potential ABV at just about 10%.

 

[starsfan]

Nothing to be embarassed about!

I read your hydrometer as about SG = 1.072 (or 17.5 brix). This puts your potential ABV at just about 10%.

Thank you sir! ;-)

 

[cmason1957]

I would go ahead and pitch the yeast. 67 should be just fine. It might take a bit longer to ferment to dry, but probably not. It is 65 or so in my basement and I ferment down there regularly.

 

[starsfan]

I would go ahead and pitch the yeast. 67 should be just fine. It might take a bit longer to ferment to dry, but probably not. It is 65 or so in my basement and I ferment down there regularly.

I got it up to 71/72 and pitched the yeast! had to move that bucket in the house because its supposed to get down to freezing tonight so I couldn't leave it in the building. What a heavy freaking bucket!!!

but, its in the house in the right temp zone, so im waiting for the bubbles! ;-)

Steve

 

[starsfan]

Very concerned....

I pitched the yeast at about 11am yesterday, it is 5am now...so roughly 18-ish hours in, and I see no signs of fermentation.

Thoughts?

 

[starsfan]

Very concerned....

I pitched the yeast at about 11am yesterday, it is 5am now...so roughly 18-ish hours in, and I see no signs of fermentation.

Thoughts?

Never mind. LOL

Lesson learned. never trust your eyes when you just woke up to pee. After waiting a half hour and waking up good...I went back and looked. and there are in fact bubbles in the airlock so were good!

 

[sour_grapes]

Lesson learned! But, for future reference, you may not see measurable activity for even up to 48 hours. Don't panic!

 

[cintipam]

Guys I admit I don't do kits, but should this fresh primary beginning ferment really be in a sealed bucket with airlock attached? I racked once, just once, at 1.020 and had to clean up a real mess. i can't imagine what would happen if I tried it with 1.090 or anything near it.

Pam in cinti

 

[starsfan]

Guys I admit I don't do kits, but should this fresh primary beginning ferment really be in a sealed bucket with airlock attached? I racked once, just once, at 1.020 and had to clean up a real mess. i can't imagine what would happen if I tried it with 1.090 or anything near it.

Pam in cinti

I have been told by some not to put the lid on when I did my first kit. I was told it was better to just cover with a towel or something to give it breathing room. On my first batch, I didn't want to do that because I tried to follow the instructions as closely as possible since it was a first. And, I liked being able to see the airlock bubble giving me instant feedback on what was going on inside the bucket.

I have read stories on here of people who have had lids blow on them leaving a big mess to contend with and that is something I certainly do not want!

On the other hand, it seems odd to me that the kit instructions clearly say to close the lid and insert the airlock. one would ASSUME (I know what happens when you do that!) that if they felt you were likely going to get the blow up doing this, that the instructions would advise against doing it.

I am not going to argue the case either way really...because clearly I am a rookie and am pretty clueless. I mean...I'm pretty much just throwing stuff in a bucket and hoping for wine! LOL ;-)

one of my concerns about not tightening the lid, is where I live we have ants. tons and tons of ants. and they get in the house, and in our buildings...they are everywhere. and they are already starting to make their way into the house this year. if I were to leave the lid off this thing, im certain ants would destroy my work.

but, im always interested to hear and consider other thoughts on this.

Steve

 

[cintipam]

Hi Steve

I agree if that is what your instructions say, it should be safe. Esp with ants, sealed is better. I'm betting they do tell you to stir occasionally? The major clean up I had was in a carboy (which has a narrow neck). I guess the pressure just built up and since it was focused on that narrow area it was too much to handle.

On the other hand you will prob in later wine making attempts need to deal with the ant issue. I have used Max Attrax ant traps with great success. We tend to have problems during wet springs. This trap has bait that they say the ants carry back to the hive and it eventually gets them all. I have only found this product at Krogers, but there are prob other similar brands out there.

Pam in cinti

 

[starsfan]

This stuff is rocking along. Lots of bubbles! ;-)

I have been opening the lid and giving it a stir once per day. it was looking all dark and cloudy when I pitched the yeast and sealed the lid....now when you stir past the bubbles, its a nice clean crisp looking yellow. Looking good, smelling good...and even a small taste proved to be a nice early sample! ;-)

Steve

 

[starsfan]

Ok, so here are some thoughts im thinking about tonight. I am not 100% happy with the flavor of the peach puree that I used in the primary. don't get me wrong, after a sample tonight, what is in the bucket seems pretty OK to me...but when I think of the finished flavor I want to achieve, that puree just doesn't have it. but a can of peaches from the grocery store....that's what im looking for.

I called the LHBS to talk to them about cutting some of the F-pack and replacing it with canned peaches and the juice/syrup they are packed in to get that flavor to come out...and the answer was just confusing and nothing I could count on. They warned that the F-pack MAY have something in it that it needs to prevent fermenting and that if I cut it, it may not be enough for the kit and could ruin it. they said if I just add the canned peaches with the whole F-pack that might be OK, but it might also be a problem because maybe whatever was in the f-pack or whatever I may have to add with the packets provided with the kit may not be enough to cover the extra provided by the canned peaches. so it was basically "this might be ok, and it might not". so not really an answer in my books coming from people who make this stuff and should know the answers. LOL and, no offered advise on what I could do to asure that I could add the canned peaches, and know that the wine was protected by adding ABC....ect.....

Also, its already going to be sweet...adding the whole f-pack AND the canned peaches will just make it even sweeter!

what say you?

Thanks,
Steve

 

[starsfan]

thoughts? ;-)

 

[cintipam]

OK, remember that I don't do kits. But I do create all the wines I make from scratch. I went back and looked and your original SG was only 1.072, which to me is a bit low. If your stuff is still fermenting I would go ahead and add the fpak now to let the yeast ferment out whatever sugars it can which will make it a bit higher in alcohol. I really don't like canned fruit, to me it is like adding flavor stripped mush. I would get some frozen peaches to add, and get them in there in a bag right away. If you buy frozen in the bag from the store you don't need to worry about the kmeta treatment, but you will be forced to do a heavy round of pectic enzyme later to help break down the haze the peaches will cause. Frozen peaches also will not have added sugar so you won't be upping your alcohol level even more. But you would need to get those peaches in ASAP and squeeze bag daily. In my experience frozen peaches have some substance and it will prob take a full additional week for them to break down all the way.

Personally I would also get some peach concentrate flavor from the brew store to have on hand later if you feel you need more peach flavor. If you local store doesn't carry this, all of our sponsors do. I have a wide collection of purchased and homemade extracts I use to finetune my wines about week pre bottling.

BTW since I know this is an early wine for you, basically most wines are fermented to dry, then at the same time both Kmeta and potassium sorbate are added to limit further yeast action that may kick in when you add sweeteners. Saying this so you understand that if you add fpak now, most of that sweetness intended for your finished wine will be converted by the still active yeast. That leaves you plenty of additional sweetness that you could control later and add to the finished wine.

So sorry this is confusing. I think this is part of why they advise to do a kit or two according to instructions before jumping in for changes.

Also to address your concerns if your kit has a pkt called fining and stabilizers or just stabilizers then those additives would not be in the fpak. So my suggestions above should work with no problem. Hoping experienced kit makers will chime in on this tho.

I can say for sure that doing pectic enzyme later does work, but you should use a much heavier dose of PE than the instructions say since you will do this after ferment is completely done. Like 3x more if you wine looks cloudy. Kmeta inactivates PE which is why the timing of this treatment is tricky. But I know for sure that extra PE is one thing that will not change the taste of you wine like too much Potassium Sorbate will.

Pam in cinti

 

[cintipam]

One more point I think is really important. I appreciate that you are trying to make the wine that you taste in your head. I am exactly the same way. That's how I have created all my wine. But here's the kicker. With all wines the flavor changes a whole lot with age. In fact my Moscato changed far more than any other wine I've made. Most of my wines are from buckets, but early on I can taste and get a clue how they will mature. My Moscato was really an eyeopener. I love white wine, but I frankly did not care for my moscato. So it went thru a couple diff formats. Originally I fermented with 8 lbs of strawberries. Not enough. So I made a homemade fpak of pineapple and added it with coconut extract. Still not tasty to me. So it went on a back burner and I just took care of it but ignored it. At about a year of age I tasted it again and it tasted pretty good. The background flavor had developed more than I thought it ever could. So I added strawberry extract and more coconut extract, backsweetened to a moderate degree and it has become a favorite of my sweet wine loving friends.

Just thought it important to stress that early tastes do not really give you enough to decide about final flavor. Only time can do that.

Pam in cinti

 

[starsfan]

Ok, so this moscato is finished with primary and I am about to rack it off the lee's. At this point, im not happy or satisfied that I will have the vanilla peach flavor im looking for so here is my plan (please tell me if there is a reason I should not do this)

Instead of racking to a carboy, I am thinking about just racking to another clean bucket so that I can go buy some frozen peaches and put them in a strainer bag and work those into the wine for a little while before moving to a carboy (cant get those peaches and strainer bag in the mouth of a carboy).

im thinking racking it to another bucket with the peaches, put an air lock on it, and let it go for a couple or 3 weeks stirring and squeezing the peaches each day. Then, racking to a carboy for bulk aging.

does this seem reasonable, and like it wouldn't hurt the wine?

Also, I know you are supposed to add a campden tablet per gallon of wine to prevent another fermentation.....I do not have the tablets, but I do have a big bag of potassium metabisulfite...how much of this is equal to a campden tablet? or how much do I use for 6 gallons of wine?

Thanks,
Steve

 

[starsfan]

thoughts anyone?

 

[starsfan]

so...what I ended up doing was just racking to a carboy as is, and as per instructions, im going to let settle for 10 days and proceed as instructed. when I add the F-pack...hopefully by then I will have come up with a good way to impart a definite peach flavor.

on sampling tonight...its pretty decent...but very green tasting. there is a little something that is lingering that I can't quite describe. it may be tart-ish. its not horrible but its affecting the over all flavor as it becomes more dominate in the after taste. Not bad...it just is whatever it is. im assuming and hoping that will disappear in time. ;-)

So according to the hydrometer, it lands right on the line 0.990

im worried now because I just read on jack kellers website that you need at least 12.3% to preserve the wine??? surely not, the kit isn't even designed to produce that much abv if you follow the instructions. I did bump up the abv a bit...but not tons because from what I see...MOST moscato's run about 6% so I figured if I finished about 9 or 10...that would be a nice bump and still be a smooth sweet wine.....yes?

Thanks,
Steve

 

[sour_grapes]

bit...but not tons because from what I see...MOST moscato's run about 6% so I figured if I finished about 9 or 10...

I have you at 10.7% right now.

Sorry, I don't know the answers to your questions.

 

[starsfan]

Ok, let's discuss this a bit. LOL

So, I started this on March 18th. Transferred to secondary on the 27th. I could not detect even a hint of peach flavor or smell from the 1 can of peach puree that I used. NOTHING! so after asking for advise on what I could do to fix that...the guy from the LHBS told me that since I still had 2 cans of peach puree left, what he would recommend is that I transfer back to the bucket, pour in the puree and pitch some new yeast and RE-ferment again. He said this was a technique a lot of homebrew guys used because peach usually got lost in the fermenting of the grapes. OK, im new to all this...so he works there...I should trust him, yes? OK! So I follow his directions. So on April 2nd, I transferred back to the bucket, and did as instructed. While I did get a little fermentation going on...it wasn't really much action in the airlock. So, I transferred back to carboy to for a do-over in secondary after the re-fermenting! (FYI, I also added some thawed, frozen peaches to a straining bag in the fermenting bucket for good measure)

Now, the transfer back to carboy happened on April 9th...and I STILL can't really detect anything of peach! GRRR

Anyway...Now instead of a white wine, I have a dark yellow wine. and I have a thick layer of crud from the peaches and puree floating on the top of the wine. I almost want to take it back to the bucket, and skim that crap off the top!

Thoughts, comments?

Thanks!
Steve