My wine is turning to vinegar what can i do?

[warover]

hello
Today i tasted my wine which i putted back in November in a new to me but one year old used French oak barrel and the wine gives a very strong acid taste at first and then a heavy alcohol taste so i am afraid that i have high volatile acidity
My father which made it never add any SO2 in his wines is there anything i can do to save that wine ?

 

[Julie]

what kind of wine is it and what steps have you taken.

 

[warover]

what kind of wine is it and what steps have you taken.

hello it is a red wine
My father made it the same way every year after destiming he left is with the berries for 2 days to take color then we remove berries and leave it till ferment ends after that we rack it in to oak barrels till now wine was ok and only today we noticed that acetic flavor

 

[Julie]

Sorry but I really can not tell if your wine is turning to vinegar. There is a chance that it is and if so, the only solution is to dump it. I do not mean any disrespect to your father but his way of making wine is a hit or miss method.

 

[seth8530]

As others have mentioned you might need to revisit your wine making techniques. However, it might be worth a try to rack a bit from near the bottom and see if it has the same taste. Bit of a long shot though.

 

[warover]

The thing is that the only reasonable explanation is that the wine has an increasing acetic acid yet i can not get it with nose so i can not tell 100% but if it was anything else shouldn't that be there from the beginning for example excess malic or CO2 ? cause this just came out now i measured ph and it was 3.6 and TA 7.8

 

[warover]

As others have mentioned you might need to revisit your wine making techniques. However, it might be worth a try to rack a bit from near the bottom and see if it has the same taste. Bit of a long shot though.

it is an oak barel so i am always takings wine near the bottom

 

[Geronimo]

Acetic acid can be produced from acetaldehyde oxidation, which is a simple flaw of fermentation. You might just have a flaw and not a total loss.

Acetaldehyde is usually a product of using too much sugar (dextrose or sucrose). It is often described as tasting like green apples or a cidery flavor.

 

[seth8530]

What kind of acid taste does it have? Is it more akin to vinegar? Or is it different? The TA is a bit high, so that might be contributing to the flavour. Did you perform MLF? What is the ABV and residual sugar on the wine?

I would not claim defeat quite yet.....

 

[warover]

it is actually a very "heavy" wine i feel that alcohol is the main flavor here but i do not have a distillation apparatus to check it while drinking i take a sour taste which i can not identify 100% but i tend more to vinegar and then a strike from alcohol .the thing that raises more questions is tht i feel the burning only in the tip of my tongue and none in palate so i am afraid of CO2 but could that change the acid flavour in wine ?

 

[JohnT]

kmeta, NOW!

 

[Runningwolf]

I would filter it as tight as possible and then add a heavy dose of meta. Before dumping I would try ascorbic acid followed up with copper. Follow directions on label.

 

[warover]

kmeta, NOW!

The thing is that adding Kmeta is mandatory now and may stop the evolution of the problem but i am mostly interested to detect the problem in case it is something i can fix cause we are talking for 500liters of wine and it is not about the cost of it as it was our fruit but i do not want to just let it go ...
I was also informed that the barrel was this year close to the one contained our vinegar but out storage place has good aeration

 

[warover]

I would filter it as tight as possible and then add a heavy dose of meta. Before dumping I would try ascorbic acid followed up with copper. Follow directions on label.

i dropped a copper penny inside a glass but i actually don't get heavy smells .ascorbic acid will only help me in case i have to remove the wine to an other tank to add SO2 in order to bind with oxygen am i right ?

 

[Geronimo]

I was also informed that the barrel was this year close to the one contained our vinegar but out storage place has good aeration

That's a cardinal sin... you're asking for an acetobacter infection if you keep vinegar anywhere near wine production.

 

[JohnT]

i dropped a copper penny inside a glass but i actually don't get heavy smells .ascorbic acid will only help me in case i have to remove the wine to an other tank to add SO2 in order to bind with oxygen am i right ?

OK,

In summary, you are noticing that you have a problem that is progressively getting worse over time. I do not think that acetaldehyde oxidation will worsen after fermentation (Correct me if I am wrong Geronimo). Given that the wine was stored close to a barrel of vinegar, I would put my money on the cause being some form of acetobacterium that got established in your wine.

My saying "KMeta Now", was and is rather sound advice. You need to kill that bacteria before it gets any worse. Deal with that bacteria, then try address the flaws in your wine.

I find having a PH of 3.6 and a TA of 7.8 odd. You might want to try some bench trials to first, perhaps, reduce the acid via k-bicarb, then bring the PH down to 3.5 or 3.6 using tartaric acid? Not sure how much the wine can be improved, but it is worth playing with it before you dump it.

Please do not take what I am about to say as an insult, and with all due respect to your father's method, your sanitary practices need serious addressing. Whenever a wine turns to vinegar, it is always the fault of the winemaker and most always could have been prevented by simple cleaning with k-meta and other sanitary products. storing your wine as far from your vinegar as possible (in a different building or different state perhaps) is a definite must!

Do not beat yourself up too much. With many (myself included) there is a struggle between doing things in a traditional way and a more modern way. Over the years, I have found great success in approaching winemaking as a science first, and an art second. Read up on modern techniques and do what is best for the wine!

 

[salcoco]

if you donot have a aroma of vinegar the tastes that you are experiencing may be just the wine going through its aging process. SO2 can be added now without moving the wine.
Are you using a ph meter for your tests or strips? If strips they are not very accurate.

I also suggest bench trials. make a sugar syrup of two cups sugar to one cup hot water, mix in a blender. once cool add a 1/4 tsp to about 1/4 cup of the wine see if flavor profile changes. try another sample with 1/2 tsp, continue increasing the sugar syrup by 1/4 tsp in new samples until wine flavor is what you want. Calculate the amount that needs to be added to bulk wine add potassium sorbate and bottle the wine.

 

[Geronimo]

OK,
I do not think that acetaldehyde oxidation will worsen after fermentation (Correct me if I am wrong Geronimo).

It happens right after fermentation, but it doesn't worsen really... it only take a few days and it's over.

It's nearly impossible to accurately diagnose this issue unfortunately. If we were all there... looking, smelling, tasting... it might be different.

However, with the vinegar barrel in the room, I'm jumping the fence and going to the vinegar camp. Highly suspect.

 

[Tom_S]

Yes, doesn't matter how good the aeration in the room is.

 

[BernardSmith]

hello
Today i tasted my wine which i putted back in November in a new to me but one year old used French oak barrel and the wine gives a very strong acid taste at first and then a heavy alcohol taste so i am afraid that i have high volatile acidity
My father which made it never add any SO2 in his wines is there anything i can do to save that wine ?

My response is due to my ignorance here but is it possible the barrel itself may be the cause of the off flavors? The barrel is not new and so if it was not properly cleaned and all remaining yeast and bacterial infestations eliminated might these be contributing to off flavors? I have never used barrels before but I thought that one real danger was the presence of Brett (Brettanomyes yeast). Wouldn't Brett also contribute to the acidic taste?

There are - I believe - but I am no chemist - relatively simple (but inexpensive? ) methods to test for the presence of Brett. That said, apart from adding SO2 I am not sure how to remove Brett once it has taken hold in the wine itself.