need help on how to proceed with Lab results.

[c21]

Got my lab results for my wine but need help on how to correct the chemistry. Posted them on a different forum as well but had to many different approaches.

Touriga nacional 45 gallons from fresh grapes.

Ph. 4.09 Titratable acidity 5.0 g/l Glucose. 0 Fructose. 0.4. G/L

Alcohol 12.3

Organic acids Tartrate 3.1. G/L Melate. 1.1 Lactate 3.5 Acetate 0.7

Free so2. <5.0 Total so2. 8.6

Sensory appraisal: some acetic in nose and taste. Little structure or tan is.ph is too high

30 gallons of %75 cab sauv. And %25 Merlot also from fresh grapes

Ph. 3.45 Titratable acidity 9.1. g/l Glucose. 1.5 Fructose. 4.4. G/L Residual sugar. 0.6. %(w/v) Alcohol 13.6

Organic acids Tartrate 2.5. G/L Melate. 2.8 Lactate 0.4 Acetate 0.2

Free so2. <5.0 Total so2 22.9 Sensory appraisal: no off aromas or flavors. Acid balance is off.

How can I get this wine to be somewhat decent. thanks in advace

 

[JohnT]

OK,

You need to know what levels are optimal. on your touriga, the acid level seems to be too low, while your blend seems to be too high. You need to get some k-bicarb and some tartaric acid and adjust as needed. Many stickies and postings on exactly how to do this are located in this forum.

Your free SO2 (i assume that <5. means less than 5 parts per million?) also needs to be raised through the addition of some k-meta.

johnT.

 

[winemaker_3352]

Welcome aboard!!!

I agree with John is saying...

 

[c21]

Some have suggested to blend both batches and let it cold soak for 3-4 weeks. I'm not too high on that because I really like the taste of the Touriga and wanted to keep it 100%. But without lab equipment it may be too expensive to adjust.

 

[MalvinaScordaad]

Cold Soak? The wine is made already HUH oh the "other forum" sorry
Malvina

 

[MalvinaScordaad]

OK,

You need to know what levels are optimal. on your touriga, the acid level seems to be too low, while your blend seems to be too high. You need to get some k-bicarb and some tartaric acid and adjust as needed. Many stickies and postings on exactly how to do this are located in this forum.

Your free SO2 (i assume that <5. means less than 5 parts per million?) also needs to be raised through the addition of some k-meta.

johnT.

So why not ask how it tastes and forget the Lab results?
Malvina

 

[grapeman]

The numbers don't look bad on either of them to me. I would leave well enough alone especially if you like the taste of them. The S02 level is too low and is likely why you have a bit of acetic in the sensory eval. It is basically unprotected. Add the proper amount of S02 to the wine based on amount and pH of the wine. The higher the pH, the more is bound so more is needed. Lower pH wine requires less S02.

 

[joea132]

Has the blend gone through malolactic fermentation? I had similarly high ta and when I added a vp41 malolactic bacteria I was able to bring it down to normal levels. That will also bring your pH a little higher. That's my suggestion. I still have higher pH but. I like the flavor and decided I'm leaving it and just not aging it more than a few years.

The Vp41 is a resilient malolactic bacteria strain and has helped me twice now.

As far as the first you can add tartaric acid and try to adjust down your pH and raise your TA. I'm not sure if adding sulfites will fix the acetic aroma though.

One thing that stands to be said is how does it taste? You can't make your wine based on chemistry alone. Wine making is half art and half science. Don't rely on one or the other.

 

[joea132]

OK,

You need to know what levels are optimal. on your touriga, the acid level seems to be too low, while your blend seems to be too high. You need to get some k-bicarb and some tartaric acid and adjust as needed. Many stickies and postings on exactly how to do this are located in this forum.

Your free SO2 (i assume that <5. means less than 5 parts per million?) also needs to be raised through the addition of some k-meta.

johnT.

I've used K-bicarbonate with success but it should not be used until you have tried Malolactic fermentation. Remember to put it into another container and rack it into that, it foams up like a son of a gun. If you add it into a full carboy or demijohn you will have a wine volcano.

 

[altavino]

i'd do mlf on them both , and seriously consider blending the two together . so2 should bind up minor acetic acid levels , if the wine has already been through mlf get your so2 up to 50ppm

blending a high acid with a low acid wine is simply the best way to balance acid in a wine once its already been fermented.

 

[whackfol]

First. get the SO2 up and protect the wine. (It looks like the wine went through MLF. Is this correct?) You did not provide a VA measure, but the acetate value is high in your first wine. This seems to be confirmed by your sensory evaluation - acetic.

From there, I'd try some different processes and go with my taste. There is no formula. Blending is a good option and may be the best if you have a VA problem in the Tourega. You don't have to blend it all. How will the Tourega taste with some tartaric added? How will the pH respond? You could try to cold stabilize your high acid wine if you think you need it. (I think this was what was suggested and you referred to as Cold Soak). How is/was your wine aged? Try fining with egg whites or adding some cellaring tannins such as T'ancor or Tannin complex to the CS/merlot mix. There are many other products to try such as Biolees and Gum Arabic that might help with your various quandries. From my experience, take your time give the wine some time to mature. Some of my best wines were ones I worried about, did little, and just gave a little more time.

What vintage is the wine?

 

[joea132]

I would be very careful blending wine with a bad nose with a good one. If you do, make sure you do bench trials as to not ruin both.

 

[JohnT]

So why not ask how it tastes and forget the Lab results?
Malvina

Your being a little rude (don't you think)?

 

[whackfol]

I don't think questioning a motive or tone is going to move this topic along. I find Malvina's question pointed and legitimate -- not rude.

The question reminds me that making wine is not a numbers game, but a taste game. It's too easy to get caught up in the quantifiable aspect and lose sight of what counts - taste.

 

[MalvinaScordaad]

OK,

You need to know what levels are optimal. on your touriga, the acid level seems to be too low, while your blend seems to be too high. You need to get some k-bicarb and some tartaric acid and adjust as needed. Many stickies and postings on exactly how to do this are located in this forum.

Your free SO2 (i assume that <5. means less than 5 parts per million?) also needs to be raised through the addition of some k-meta.

johnT.

You find fault with my response ok but let's look at yours. " You need to know what levels are optimal" How are you suggesting one does this? You then go on to suggest the use of K-bicarb and tartaric. And then suggest reading stickies on how to do that. Do you really think stickies have the answer? They might but you never said taste the wine as a winemaker should. So I ask you So why not ask how it tastes and forget the Lab results? You a little too sensitive John?
Malvina

 

[joea132]

Easy everybody, remember we are here to help someone who is asking us for our professional opinion. Let's stay civil and remember we are here to learn about our passion and have fun.

Let's drop the gloves, respect each other's differences and welcome this newcomer with open arms. Not to mention give them the answer they need.

 

[MalvinaScordaad]

Easy everybody, remember we are here to help someone who is asking us for our professional opinion. Let's stay civil and remember we are here to learn about our passion and have fun.

Let's drop the gloves, respect each other's differences and welcome this newcomer with open arms. Not to mention give them the answer they need.

Easy everybody? Drop the Gloves? What ? Did I miss a few posts? Or are you the new conscience here? Just exactly what are you referring to? Let's stay civil? Did you read anything that wasn't civil? Let's remember this you say, well instead let's remember this, we are entitled to opinions and feelings that is human nature. It may not fit your perfect idea of the human race but that is how it is with most of us. Jeeez just what we need, another self appointed politically correct monitor. the "Taste the wine , Trash the test" statement becomes a problem. Give me a break. This didn't even concern you but you found the need to stick your nose in it.
Malvina