Need help with vine

[VineWine]

Hello everyone. I'm a beginner (and I mean beginner) interested in growing grape vines. The reason I joined this forum is because there are so many videos on the internet, but I have yet to find one that addresses my problem.

My problem has to do with pruning a grape vine. I'm trying to do some pruning before the spring truly hits and the vines begin to leaf out. The Vines in question were neglected you can say. They produced grapes, one more than the other, but you could tell they had not been pruned for multiple seasons.

This is the vine in question:

Spoiler: Vine 1 Spring

The trellis system is incredibly weak, and to my rookie eyes, the vine seems to be too bushy. Well, that was last season. It produced a greenish seedless grape that I suppose matured reddish. I'm guessing that because of the canopy and the 'vigor' of the leaf growth, they never truly ripened. This was part of the harvest:

Spoiler: Vine 1 fruit

That season passed and this is what was left of that growth just a few days ago:

Spoiler: Vine 1 before any pruning

I had completely no idea what I was doing, but I decided a lot of it had to go. So I took out a saw and my secateurs and I began to go away at it. This is what I accomplished that day.

Spoiler: Vine 1 after some pruning and in current condtion

As you all can tell, there are still a few thick branches stemming out from the main trunk on the very bottom. I don't know how to proceed from here. One thing that threw me off and made it more difficult, was that I hear a lot about cane pruning. And I sort of understand that, because the other grape vine has canes just like those I've seen repeatedly in videos. In fact, this is what I ended up doing.

Spoiler: Vine 2 spring

Spoiler: Vine 2 before pruning

Spoiler: Vine 2 after some pruning and in current condition

But the problem is that the vine I'm asking about (the majority of the pics I've posted) doesn't have those long canes that I so commonly see. Instead, they look like antlers. This is the best picture I could get to describe it:

Spoiler: Vine 1 antler-like growth

There's lots of old growth (over one year I'm guessing) branching out of a 'cordon' (i suppose) and there's only new growth at the end. So I have no idea how to go about pruning this and only choosing one cane when the new growth is literally at the end of everything that is recommended I prune off.

If anyone can tell me how to proceed with pruning these vines, I'd greatly appreciate it. Do I cut off all the other branchings from the trunk and only leave the straightest one? What do I do about the antlers? How do I go about getting rid of those and if I get rid of those, will I have new canes spring about? Also, is it possible to build a new trellis/support system now that the plants have been established there for years? If I can get advice regarding the two vines, I would greatly appreciate it.

I dug and dug online for resources regarding the questions I'm posting here and I couldn't for the life of me, find anything that addressed this specifically. So my last resort was googling "grape forum" and this popped up. So I'm here asking for help from people who know what they're talking about, so that I avoid making as many mistakes as I possibly can.

Thank you very much.

 

[salcoco]

I would prune the grapes, both vine, so that you create a "T" the top of the tee being the long cordons. you can prune these so that there is a total of thirty to forty buds. you can make a new trellis with the top wire at about 6 ft and then tie the cordons to each side. your crop may lose some quantify the first year, but with less leaf the plant will get more sunshine and increase harvest the following year. subsequent years pick a new cane and prune of the others, again maintain a thirty-forty bud count. take about a cup of 10-10-10 fertilizer add at just bud break around the plant, do the same after harvest in the fall. the spring addition will traverse the plant just in time for fruit formation, the fall addition is because forty percent of root growth is done in fall post harvest. good luck

 

[user 36973]

Do you know what varietal the grapevine is? Some vines work better on particular trellis systems or prefer cane/spur pruning.

Here are few basic pieces of info to help recover the vines back to shape. You probably already know many of these.
* Keep only 1 trunk. You may decide in future years to grow a second but let's get them back on track this year.
* Keep only 1 cordon for each arm of your "T" shape. Probably would be best to choose a new 1-year growth from near the top of the trunk if possible. This way you will also get some fruit as well. It is also likely that the vines were ravaged with mildews and black rot last year, so getting rid of older wood is not a bad thing.
* Remember that your fruit will come from last year's growth, not older wood. It sounds like you already can tell that the new growth are the smooth canes and barky wood is older.
* Fertilizer is good in the spring before bloom. 10-10-10 works fine. See note below about fall fertilization
* You'll want to get some pesticide sprays to manage downy mildew, powdery mildew, black rot, and whatever variety of insects pester your vines.
* Make sure your trellis is strong enough to bear the force of the vine blowing in a thunderstorm.

take about a cup of 10-10-10 fertilizer add at just bud break around the plant, do the same after harvest in the fall

While the roots certainly continue to grow well into the fall after harvest, I would be concerned that a fall application of fertilizer would stimulate growth and cause the vine to not harden off for the winter. Full hardening off is a major concern where I am with this year having gotten down to -16'F in January. Maybe your location or experience is different or you can suggest a timing that does not interfere with the vines getting prep'd for winter. Maybe a fall fertilizer that does not contain nitrogen would work.

 

[VineWine]

I'm going to try to re-do the trellis system because it's currently being 'supported' by t-posts and a thick wire that is not really tensioned. As you can see in the picture with foliage, it cannot bear the weight of the growth.

Right now the vines have an 'L' shape rather than a 'T' shape so I'll be seeing if I get any new growth that I can train into another arm.

I don't know the varieties but as you can see one of them is green and develops a reddish blush (or perhaps they didn't fully ripen, but they were sweet) and is seedless. The other I suspect is a concord because it has a leechy-mango-like taste and has a slip-skin with large hard seeds.

I trimmed back the spurs on the larger vine to 2 buds but I still have to trim the limbs down to 1 or 2. I'm kind of holding off until I install the new trellis though, just in case another one of the limbs can be trained the other way to complete a T-like formation.

I'm not dead-sure of that yet though, and am still looking for opinions. It seems like the larger vine was spur trained and that's why I was so confused since it's a table grape and I was under the impression that most table grape varieties are cane pruned.

 

[balatonwine]

To put it simple, trim the vine down to two canes (last year's growth only). One for each arm of a trellis "T". That is all. Nothing else should remain. Next year you can decide if you want to cane again or turn the canes into cordons. So your trimming, in this photo, is not enough:

Vines are very hardy. You can literally cut everything off, and head them (cut off the vine's head), and new growth will almost always come directly from the trunk. It is almost impossible to kill a vine from trimming alone. So do not hold back.

For example, I turn this:

Into this (cutting away everything but to canes and two spurs (spurs only suggested if one knows they will cane next year)):

 

[VineWine]

I would prune the grapes, both vine, so that you create a "T" the top of the tee being the long cordons. you can prune these so that there is a total of thirty to forty buds. you can make a new trellis with the top wire at about 6 ft and then tie the cordons to each side. your crop may lose some quantify the first year, but with less leaf the plant will get more sunshine and increase harvest the following year. subsequent years pick a new cane and prune of the others, again maintain a thirty-forty bud count. take about a cup of 10-10-10 fertilizer add at just bud break around the plant, do the same after harvest in the fall. the spring addition will traverse the plant just in time for fruit formation, the fall addition is because forty percent of root growth is done in fall post harvest. good luck

Do you know what varietal the grapevine is? Some vines work better on particular trellis systems or prefer cane/spur pruning.

Here are few basic pieces of info to help recover the vines back to shape. You probably already know many of these.
* Keep only 1 trunk. You may decide in future years to grow a second but let's get them back on track this year.
* Keep only 1 cordon for each arm of your "T" shape. Probably would be best to choose a new 1-year growth from near the top of the trunk if possible. This way you will also get some fruit as well. It is also likely that the vines were ravaged with mildews and black rot last year, so getting rid of older wood is not a bad thing.
* Remember that your fruit will come from last year's growth, not older wood. It sounds like you already can tell that the new growth are the smooth canes and barky wood is older.
* Fertilizer is good in the spring before bloom. 10-10-10 works fine. See note below about fall fertilization
* You'll want to get some pesticide sprays to manage downy mildew, powdery mildew, black rot, and whatever variety of insects pester your vines.
* Make sure your trellis is strong enough to bear the force of the vine blowing in a thunderstorm.


While the roots certainly continue to grow well into the fall after harvest, I would be concerned that a fall application of fertilizer would stimulate growth and cause the vine to not harden off for the winter. Full hardening off is a major concern where I am with this year having gotten down to -16'F in January. Maybe your location or experience is different or you can suggest a timing that does not interfere with the vines getting prep'd for winter. Maybe a fall fertilizer that does not contain nitrogen would work.

To put it simple, trim the vine down to two canes (last year's growth only). One for each arm of a trellis "T". That is all. Nothing else should remain. Next year you can decide if you want to cane again or turn the canes into cordons. So your trimming, in this photo, is not enough:

Vines are very hardy. You can literally cut everything off, and head them (cut off the vine's head), and new growth will almost always come directly from the trunk. It is almost impossible to kill a vine from trimming alone. So do not hold back.

For example, I turn this:

Into this (cutting away everything but to canes and two spurs (spurs only suggested if one knows they will cane next year)):

So this is what I've done now that I've built a new trellis system. I decided that I wanted the trunk to only go up 3 feet instead of the 5 or so feet that i had at the onset. So I cut off pretty much all the arms that were too twisted and kept the most 'viable' ones. That's where I need help now. I hope new shoots will grow out of the region where I've cut the vine. If so, I'd like help in deciding which of the 3 'arms' I should keep as my trunk. Below are the pictures of what I've done and the arms that I'm asking about.

Should I fertilize the plant (it's still winter here although we haven't had frost for a few days now) or should I not since the pruning will already have increased the vine's vigor?

 

[VillaVino]

Pick up the book, From Vines to Wine. I’ve read, reread and read some more until it made sense. It’s on my night stand.

 

[VineWine]

Wasn't seeing much growth and was starting to get worried. But to be honest, we had a really strange beginning of spring here in Southern California, with really hot days followed by one or two frosty nights. They've started leafing out and as the weather gets warmer, new buds are emerging from the thickest trunk and base. I'll post updated pictures soon.