Need some help

[wineview]

One year ago I fermented two buckets of Barolo with 71B yeast. I tried MLF and left it in a 70F environment for 5-6 months. Chromatography tests still showed malic acid. I decided to sulphate and keep in bulk. From day one it had some kind of off taste that I really can’t describe other than sour. Racked today and it still has that off taste. Is there anything I can do with this wine to try and save it? This has got me scratching my head.

 

[Chuck E]

I think you'll need to describe the off taste a bit more. Also how is the color & aroma?

Once you determine the problem, I've found it best to test the solution in a "bench" test.

 

[Rice_Guy]

? do you have a wine group where you are that could give more words to describe the flavor?

Normally one can fix high acid flavor by back sweetening. Sugar will also bring out fruit notes. ,,, Have you tried some sugar in a glass of this wine?

 

[wineview]

I think you'll need to describe the off taste a bit more. Also how is the color & aroma?

Once you determine the problem, I've found it best to test the solution in a "bench" test.

Color is stripped. Best description might be a tart Rose in color and taste

 

[wineview]

? do you have a wine group where you are that could give more words to describe the flavor?

Normally one can fix high acid flavor by back sweetening. Sugar will also bring out fruit notes. ,,, Have you tried some sugar in a glass of this wine?

I am not a member of a wine group. I guess I’ll need to bench test with sugar.

 

[Chuck E]

Color is stripped. Best description might be a tart Rose in color and taste

One thing you could try is a small amount of concentrated grape juice.. This would give you a boost in color and sweetness. See if you can find a can of Syrah.

 

[wineview]

I sent a sample to a forum member and he was kind enough to give me a detailed assessment. He also suggested I post his findings to get some feedback from the group.

Here it is:

2021 Barolo;
* first impression, light oxidation (acetaldehyde) old notes/ front notes OK/ next wave is bitter~biting, ,,, skins give bitter / longest flavor notes are weakly astringent ~ mouth coating (seeds give astringent)
second impression after running numbers is no acetaldehyde/ weak second wave of metallic note/ wind up with lasting astringent note
* aroma, typical red grape/ low fruity aromatics/ no defects as VA/ reductive~mercaptans
* by the numbers gravity 0.995/ pH 3.42/ TA 0.64%/ ie basically you can’t get much better
* when neutralized to pH 6.4 the wine is flat/ long bitter and astringent is gone/ ? where are the tannic notes? (acid magnifies tannic notes)

Technically a well made no defect wine / if you have access to a Scott Labs tannin kit doing bench trials with finishing tannin is suggested to add longer flavor notes and more complexity/ ,,, bench trial a liquid oak to add vanilla aromatics?

 

[winemaker81]

Based upon the notes, it sounds like you have a well made wine that is a year old, and will need a year or 2 in the bottle to develop.

Did you age the wine with oak? If not, aging for 3 - 4 month on an oak adjunct may improve the wine, or use a finishing product.

Or don't stress about fine tuning the wine too much. Keep in mind that the enemy of "good" is not "bad", it's "better".

 

[wineview]

Based upon the notes, it sounds like you have a well made wine that is a year old, and will need a year or 2 in the bottle to develop.

Did you age the wine with oak? If not, aging for 3 - 4 month on an oak adjunct may improve the wine, or use a finishing product.

Or don't stress about fine tuning the wine too much. Keep in mind that the enemy of "good" is not "bad", it's "better".

I have some French medium toast oak spirals. Should I leave in bulk and add to the wine for 3-4 months? Or try liquid tannin instead?

 

[Chuck E]

@wineview I use two spirals per 5 gallon carboy in my process. I would recommend that you taste test the wine at one month intervals to see how much oak your palate enjoys. Rack off the oak at that point.

 

[wineview]

I pretty much know what the spirals do. Can anyone compare spirals to liquid tannin. I don’t have any experience with liquid tannin.

 

[winemaker81]

I have some French medium toast oak spirals. Should I leave in bulk and add to the wine for 3-4 months? Or try liquid tannin instead?

I have no experience with liquid or powdered tannin, so I can't advise on what. I'd add oak and age 3 to 6 months.

My fall wines are now clearing, and will be bulk aging in barrels or carboys with oak cubes. I am researching additives such as powdered oak, but can't offer anything now in that regard.

EDIT: Since you know spirals, stick with spirals for this wine. This gives you time to research and get advice, and not make a quick decision. Plan liquid for your next batch.

 

[wineview]

I’ve got a Borolo in primary right now and hopefully won’t have the same issues. I believe my forcing MLF on my current 12 gallons had something to do with the off taste. Still hoping I can salvage the wine for more than Sangria or cooking. Wondering if experimenting with a simple syrup might be worth trying.

 

[wineview]

Based upon the notes, it sounds like you have a well made wine that is a year old, and will need a year or 2 in the bottle to develop.

Did you age the wine with oak? If not, aging for 3 - 4 month on an oak adjunct may improve the wine, or use a finishing product.

Or don't stress about fine tuning the wine too much. Keep in mind that the enemy of "good" is not "bad", it's "better".

I just read about adding egg whites on another thread to eliminate bitterness. Is this something I should consider? If so how is the addition made?
Thanks

 

[winemaker81]

I just read about adding egg whites on another thread to eliminate bitterness. Is this something I should consider? If so how is the addition made?

Egg whites cut tannin. You'll need to search on it -- I haven't done it.

 

[wineview]

? do you have a wine group where you are that could give more words to describe the flavor?

Normally one can fix high acid flavor by back sweetening. Sugar will also bring out fruit notes. ,,, Have you tried some sugar in a glass of this wine?

At present I added French medium toast spirals. I will wait a few months and taste again. In the mean time, I made a simple syrup with a ratio of one part sugar to one part water. After performing some bench tests, I believe I came up with how much I need to add to five gallons (1.6 cups). Here is my question. As I mentioned above, Malic still shows up in a chromatography test even though I see no tiny bubbles whatsoever. Because I will be adding syrup, should I consider potassium sorbate as a layer of protection? Another member warned me that if I do It can lead to the smell of geraniums. K-Meta has already been added. Thoughts?

 

[winemaker81]

At present I added French medium toast spirals. I will wait a few months and taste again. In the mean time, I made a simple syrup with a ratio of one part sugar to one part water. After performing some bench tests, I believe I came up with how much I need to add to five gallons (1.6 cups). Here is my question. As I mentioned above, Malic still shows up in a chromatography test even though I see no tiny bubbles whatsoever. Because I will be adding syrup, should I consider potassium sorbate as a layer of protection? Another member warned me that if I do It can lead to the smell of geraniums. K-Meta has already been added. Thoughts?

Before adding sorbate to a wine with MLB, you have to deactivate it first. I'm not a good source for this subject, just wanted to jump in before you add sorbate. Hopefully someone more familiar will jump in.

How old is the wine?

 

[wineview]

Before adding sorbate to a wine with MLB, you have to deactivate it first. I'm not a good source for this subject, just wanted to jump in before you add sorbate. Hopefully someone more familiar will jump in.

How old is the wine

It's 13 months and still in bulk. This MLF is such tricky territory. I know winemakers who never perform a chromatography test and seem to move merrily along. By all appearances I could have done the same according to their standards; no tiny bubbles. But I wanted to be sure so I did the test and came up with a light streak. As I said, I added k-meta.

 

[winemaker81]

It's 13 months and still in bulk.

The yeast should be dead, so you can backsweeten without sorbate.

My understanding from listening to those who do MLF frequently is that the activity level of MLB is very low. AFAIK, you should be able to backsweeten and bottle.

 

[Rice_Guy]

It's 13 months and still in bulk. This MLF is such tricky territory. . . But I wanted to be sure so I did the test and came up with a light streak. As I said, I added k-meta.

FYI; lysozyme is another tool for MLF