New barrel leaking

[ldmack3]

I just purchased 2 Vadai 23L barrels, prepped them according to the instructions and filled about a week ago.
One of them has a leak, actually 4 places in the middle of the stave. When filled with water it does not leak unless you stand it on it's head or overfill a little and tap in a solid stopper. Both are creating a small amount of of pressure. The other way to make them leak is to put wine in them. Lower viscosity I suppose.
I spoke with Vadai and they are sending me some bees wax but I really don't know what to do with it. They told me to look for a very small hole, put toothpick in it, wax it, heat it sand it etc. But there is no hole detectable to the human eye. I know I'm getting blind but stacking on reading glasses so I could see clearly at 1" and there is still no visible hole where the water is coming out.
What do you do? Just try to melt the wax where the water is coming out and hope for the best?
Not happy at the moment. Had to rack my Amarone back out to a carboy.

 

[ibglowin]

I have (3) 23L Vadai's. I have had to rub wax in 2 out of the 3 barrels. It happens with small barrels fairly frequently. Once you get them sealed with the wax you should be good to go. I used paraffin (canning wax) on mine just rubbed it in on the staves that were leaking. I warmed mine up in the microwave to soften it beforehand.

And get rid of the oak stopper, use a silicon one.

 

[ldmack3]

Hope it's as easy as it sounds. You didn't heat the stave to help it flow?

I've got silicone stoppers. Oak stopper was only for standing on end to check for leaks. Think I'll do that in addition to the recommended soaking instructions....when I get another barrel.

Thanks again.

 

[ibglowin]

Nope, just some warm wax and then rub it in to the leaking stave.

 

[ldmack3]

Thanks....

 

[Rocky]

ldmack3, here is what I did with my Vadai barrels that leaked. Worked great for me.

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f74/barrel-repair-worked-me-33517/

 

[ldmack3]

Thanks Rocky.
My leaks were not at the joints between the staves, but in the middle of the stave itself. See pic above with circles around the leaks. I have done some reading and apparently if the way the stave is cut where grain starts on the inside of the barrell and ends on the outside there is a possibility of the wine leaking through the grain. Never heard of such a thing but it made sense. There are some repairs listed about following the direction of the leak, cutting into the barrell in the middle of the suspected leaking grain and driving a wedge into the cut thereby blocking the grain/leak. You guys with more expoerience with barrels may know and have tried this but I did not want to screw up my first barrel.
So I bought some beeswax, softened it in the microwave, used a hair dryer (don't tell the misses!) to heat the wood. Then I rubbed the wax on the leaking areas and heated again with the dryer to try and flow it into the leak.
What ever I did worked. I did learn how to create some pressure in the barrell to find leaks only wine would go through. Seems completely filling the barrell and then driving the oak stopper in created enough pressure the water would leak out. Otherwise it would not leak.
So on my next barrell I will first follow your fix guidelines, then pressurize it and check for leaks.
Beats the heck out of filling draining and refilling!
Thanks again Rocky and Mike for the advice.

Thanks again.

 

[ibglowin]

Wax is good stuff! Glad you got it fixed.

 

[PhilDarby]

I might be wrong here and know this thread is old, but, that looks like red oak to me ? if so that is probably the problem as I have heard white oak is less porous ? bees wax sounds a good plan too, glad it worked.

 

[ibglowin]

From the Vadai website:

These barrels are made from the best quality oak in the world, grown on the steep rocky hillside of the Zemplen forest of Hungary. The Zemplen Forest has the same type of oak species as the Quercus Petrea /Sessile oak which is the tight grained oak of Nevers and Allier of France.

 

[robie]

I will vouch for these barrels. No red oak, here. They are like any barrel, it takes a little work to get them conditioned. Each barrel is always different. Stay with it and the leaks will stop.

 

[ldmack3]

I'm good now.
Thanks Robie

 

[Rocky]

I agree with Robie on this; stick with it and they will be fine. I had two barrels that I had to do some work on but they work fine now. Here are some pictures with both filled with Rosso Magnifico, and no leaks. The close ups show how much I had to tighten the staves in order to stop the leaks.

 

[PhilDarby]

haven't logged in for ages, eh im sorry if it sounded like I was dissing the barrels it may have been the colour of the wine (leaking) in the picture and wasn't my intent, to sound negative, anyway hope it`s sorted now.

As a side note I have some similar looking barrels made in mexico, when they arrived they leaked like crazy, I filled them with water and stood them in the bath, which was also full of water above the level of the barrel`s top, for a few days, which cured the problem and allowed the wood to swell up again.

The information which came with my barrel suggested this kind of treatment because the wood shrinks during transport so has to be rehydrated to get back to its original dimensions.

it also suggested filling them with water when not in use to prevent them shrinkng again.

 

[berrycrush]

Yes, immersing the barrel completely in water for a couple of days is a good idea. Don't panic when you spot one leaky spot, it may just stop soon after wood expand further with wine. Wine seeping through around the hole rim is another matter.

 

[LeChat]

Yes, immersing the barrel completely in water for a couple of days is a good idea. Don't panic when you spot one leaky spot, it may just stop soon after wood expand further with wine. Wine seeping through around the hole rim is another matter.

Can you expand on this?

I believe I may have this issue.

 

[Enologo]

Not that I have a wealth of experience with barrels but I just went through this with my new barrel. After the initial prep there were no leaks and so I was ready to fill with wine. After filling with the wine I began to notice some seepage and after some research I attributed it to the fact due to the alcohol the wine seems to be thinner than the water that I originaly used to swell the barrel and will find it's way through any area that is marginal. Again after more research I used Rocky's method of tapping the bands tighter combined with some spraying down of the exterior in the area of the leaks and after awhile the leaking stopped. I haven't emptied the barrel yet but I plan on tightening evrything up again before I refill it. Just my 2 cents.

 

[berrycrush]

Can you expand on this?

I believe I may have this issue.

Wine seeping through the hole rim is caused by the capillary effect. Toasting the inside of the barrel left a thin layer of charcoal which is very porous. The hole wall is also charred so the wine escapes along this porous layer by capillary effect.
I heard people say that is normal and just leave it alone. Would it eventually stop? I don't know. I did an experiment: I applied some wood sealer just on the top half of the hole wall before priming/using the barrel . Basically this makes the top half of the hole wall no longer porous thus stops the capillary before it reaches the outside of the barrel. Never had hole rim seepage again.

 

[ibglowin]

Density of water is 1.000

Density of wine is ~ 0.992

Wine is thinner than water so it will find those leaky areas. Eventually (usually) it will swell and seal at the leaky areas. If you have a serious problem you may need to tighten the hoops as others have suggested or get some barrel wax or canning wax as an alternative and hit the leaky spots with some wax and that will kill the drip immediately once properly applied.