New Barrels for Forum Members

[mainshipfred]

It's getting time to start thinking about this year's barrel order. I still don't have the pricing but was told they should be close to last years. To throw a wrench in it @StreetGlide found a source for reasonably priced American Oak barrels which he seems to like . The company is The Barrel Mill and located in Minnesota. They don't mention toasted barrels only charred but if you call they will toast. The other plus is they are in stock. I have no knowledge of this company other than what he posted. The link is attached. The other reliable source is Watson's in Canada as Bill posted above. They get theirs from the same cooperage as I do.

https://www.thebarrelmill.com/

 

[StreetGlide]

It's getting time to start thinking about this year's barrel order. I still don't have the pricing but was told they should be close to last years. To throw a wrench in it @StreetGlide found a source for reasonably priced American Oak barrels which he seems to like . The company is The Barrel Mill and located in Minnesota. They don't mention toasted barrels only charred but if you call they will toast. The other plus is they are in stock. I have no knowledge of this company other than what he posted. The link is attached. The other reliable source is Watson's in Canada as Bill posted above. They get theirs from the same cooperage as I do.

https://www.thebarrelmill.com/

I honestly can not be happier with the barrels from the Barrel Mill. However, they are probably closer to 6 gal then 5, they were sold as 5 gal. They were delivered perfect, did not leak water and are both full right now, and they did not leak a drop of wine. They have both been full for only a week and tonight’s taste test has me pleased.

 

[Spudwrench12]

Could I ask what your barrel cost . PS cost is not a problem with me but a greatly crafted barrel is what I’m looking for .

 

[StreetGlide]

Could I ask what your barrel cost . PS cost is not a problem with me but a greatly crafted barrel is what I’m looking for .

I believe they were either $155 or $160 each. The 2 barrels along with 2 oak cradles and shipping was around $450 delivered and I plan on having 2 more delivered before Sept and the West Coast grape season.

 

[Ajmassa]

50L Hungarian barrel Timing will work perfectly for Spring ‘20 grapes and then roll right into fall grapes. Much obliged @mainshipfred. It was great seeing you this morning. Enjoy your South African crush today and good luck!

 

[stickman]

Really nice, but it's irritating looking at it through a half mile of plastic wrap, though I understand you don't want to remove it until you're ready to use.

 

[Ajmassa]

Lol. Been sittin like that since September too. But finally will get to breath some life into it soon. Likely filling after May’s grapes are thru MLF.

Always exciting getting new toys. Gonna build a holder for it on casters either today or tomorrow

 

[Boatboy24]

50L Hungarian barrel Timing will work perfectly for Spring ‘20 grapes and then roll right into fall grapes. Much obliged @mainshipfred. It was great seeing you this morning. Enjoy your South African crush today and good luck! View attachment 60258

I was just wondering to myself if Fred made it up there yesterday. It looks good! I know I'm enjoying the 40L I got.

 

[mainshipfred]

50L Hungarian barrel Timing will work perfectly for Spring ‘20 grapes and then roll right into fall grapes. Much obliged @mainshipfred. It was great seeing you this morning. Enjoy your South African crush today and good luck! View attachment 60258

Good seeing you as well, too bad we couldn't have grabbed a beer.

 

[rødvinselsker]

I read that smaller sized barrels have far more surface area for a given volume of wine (or other), and found a thread discussing aging schedules. Not ready for barrels yet, but as I begin to produce wine from grapes in the fall, barrel aging is where I'm headed. Many very good wines are barrel aged anywhere from 15-22 months, but that's based on a combination of neutral and new oak, as well as the barrel size. So, for anyone who may have done the calculations, is there guidance for aging time in smaller barrels that would impart an equivalent amount of oak as a larger barrel, i.e., 15 gallon vs. 60 gallon? I know the SA/V ratio goes up significantly as the barrel size is reduced. Thanks!

 

[rødvinselsker]

I read that smaller sized barrels have far more surface area for a given volume of wine (or other), and found a thread discussing aging schedules. Not ready for barrels yet, but as I begin to produce wine from grapes in the fall, barrel aging is where I'm headed. Many very good wines are barrel aged anywhere from 15-22 months, but that's based on a combination of neutral and new oak, as well as the barrel size. So, for anyone who may have done the calculations, is there guidance for aging time in smaller barrels that would impart an equivalent amount of oak as a larger barrel, i.e., 15 gallon vs. 60 gallon? I know the SA/V ratio goes up significantly as the barrel size is reduced. Thanks!

After a little digging, I found this. Couldn't find a way to delete my original post, so thought I'd update it for anyone else who may be looking for an answer to the question. While it doesn't show a standard 223-228 liter barrel, it's rough guidance at least puts things into perspective. Barrel Dimensions Deep South Barrels

Volume	Surface Area	Surface to Volume	Ratio to	Days	Weeks	Months
(Liters)	(Sq. Inches)	Ratio	53 Gallon Barrel	= 1yr	= 1yr	= 1yr
1 Liter	206	206	6.31	58	8.24	1.9
2 Liter	297	148	4.54	80	11.45	2.64
3 Liter	398	133	4.07	90	12.79	2.95
5 Liter	569	114	3.49	105	14.92	3.44
10 Liter	892	89	2.73	134	19.04	4.39
20 Liter	1382	69	2.12	173	24.58	5.67
200 Liter/53 Gal	4200	33	1	365	52	12

 

[Boatboy24]

I wouldn't put wine in a new 20 liter barrel for 5.6 months.

I have a few 23 liters and the first wine in for me is usually 4-6 weeks. From there, ~8 weeks, and then the 3rd or 4th would go 12 weeks. After that, anywhere from 3-6 months. This is all subject to taste, style and personal preference, of course. Taste the wine every couple of weeks for the first few. Let it go to a little more oak than you think you want. It'll fall back over time. If you take it out and later decide it doesn't have enough, you can always rotate the wine back through.

 

[mainshipfred]

If you look at the source the aging times are for whiskey which makes more sense.

 

[Chuck E]

I wouldn't put wine in a new 20 liter barrel for 5.6 months.

I have a few 23 liters and the first wine in for me is usually 4-6 weeks. From there, ~8 weeks, and then the 3rd or 4th would go 12 weeks. After that, anywhere from 3-6 months. This is all subject to taste, style and personal preference, of course. Taste the wine every couple of weeks for the first few. Let it go to a little more oak than you think you want. It'll fall back over time. If you take it out and later decide it doesn't have enough, you can always rotate the wine back through.

Same here!

 

[Ajmassa]

I wouldn't put wine in a new 20 liter barrel for 5.6 months.

I have a few 23 liters and the first wine in for me is usually 4-6 weeks. From there, ~8 weeks, and then the 3rd or 4th would go 12 weeks. After that, anywhere from 3-6 months. This is all subject to taste, style and personal preference, of course. Taste the wine every couple of weeks for the first few. Let it go to a little more oak than you think you want. It'll fall back over time. If you take it out and later decide it doesn't have enough, you can always rotate the wine back through.

I default to what you guys have mentioned before as the small barrel rough guideline. One week per gallon doubling each run concurrently.
New barrel = 1 wk/gal
2nd run= 2wks/gal
3rd run = 4wks/gal
Likely neutral after that

It was on point more or less with my 8 gal. Thinking (hoping) that the time increases a bit with the 15 I’m about to fill soon

 

[rødvinselsker]

I wouldn't put wine in a new 20 liter barrel for 5.6 months.

I have a few 23 liters and the first wine in for me is usually 4-6 weeks. From there, ~8 weeks, and then the 3rd or 4th would go 12 weeks. After that, anywhere from 3-6 months. This is all subject to taste, style and personal preference, of course. Taste the wine every couple of weeks for the first few. Let it go to a little more oak than you think you want. It'll fall back over time. If you take it out and later decide it doesn't have enough, you can always rotate the wine back through.

Right, that math doesn't work for wine since the benchmark one year in the table is based on a 53Gal/200L barrel vs. a standard Bordeaux (Barrique) barrel at 59 gallons, which has 3100 square inches, or a SA/V ratio of 52.54 (Concepts in Wine Technology: Small Winery Operations By Yair Margalit). The other issue is the values in the table don't seem to work anyway, unless I'm just not looking at it the right way. The graphic below shows 21SF of surface area (3,024 square inches) for a 60 gal/228L barrel. So, how does a 200L/53Gal barrel end up with 50% more SI of surface area than a 10% larger Bordeaux barrel? In a similar table to the one above, another barrel website shows the same 53gal barrel as having 6,535 , Barrel Dimensions - Red Head Oak Barrels | Aging Rum, Whiskey, Bourbon, Tequila, Wine Liquor

Once the numbers get sorted out, the other major factor I'll consider is the ratio of wine in neutral barrels to new oak. I downloaded tech data sheets for several wines, using 2016 Markham Merlot as a starting target for where I want to take my wine making, and it was aged 14½ months in French & American Oak, 32% of which was new.

 

[mainshipfred]

Just received the 2020 pricing for the barrels. One member has shown an interest for 2 barrels. I'm probably getting 3 so we need at least 5 more. Anyone interested?

25 liter $190.00
30 liter $195.00
40 liter $205.00
50 liter $215.00

 

[Boatboy24]

Just received the 2020 pricing for the barrels. One member has shown an interest for 2 barrels. I'm probably getting 3 so we need at least 5 more. Anyone interested?

25 liter $190.00
30 liter $195.00
40 liter $205.00
50 liter $215.00

You just reminded me: I need to do some barrel tasting/topping. I think the Zin is ready to come out of the 40L I got through you last year.

 

[mainshipfred]

I forgot to remind everyone of @StreetGlide's purchase from Whiskey + Oak Barrels for Sale | Cooperage | The Barrel Mill. They are American Oak and he seemed to like them, plus if I remember correctly they might have been less expensive. Also remember even though they are advertised as charred they will toast them if you request. For the Canadian folks don't forget Watson's. They also carry French Oak. See @Donz post #171 and 173 for pics. Just trying to help out!

 

[The Dutchman]

Just received the 2020 pricing for the barrels. One member has shown an interest for 2 barrels. I'm probably getting 3 so we need at least 5 more. Anyone interested?

25 liter $190.00
30 liter $195.00
40 liter $205.00
50 liter $215.00

How would this work as far as shipping goes?
I am in Arkansas, and might be interested in it for next year.
already oaked my last year's wines, and want to plan it out to where the barrel won't be empty.