New guy from Boston/ questions

[Startwining]

Yes, I was initially confused. I was thinking they were somehow related or were interchangeable because in a basic biology sense they both multiply in similar fashion.

I appreciate the correction.

 

[grapeman]

I don't mean to correct you, just want to make sure you get your basic premises down right from the start. Good luck on the project.

 

[Startwining]

Oh no feel free to correct me if I am wrong.. Looking at some of the profiles here some people have more years of wine experience than I have of actual life experience so any way I can be educated in the subject can only help me.

 

[Startwining]

Little update. Today while in the lab I was messing around with the gas chromatography machine which I will be using in the end of this project to test the final ethanol level.

Drew a tiny sample of 1micro liter of the water from my airlock that has been fermenting for 7days and ran it through the machine. And it is now an alcaholic substance or contained ethanol from the process of absorption.

Is there a reason I have read on this forum that some people use vodka in their airlocks?
Also raises the question of how or if the ethanol with bring out the plasticizers in the airlock over time(ie 10years) tainting flavor.

 

[ibglowin]

Vodka is used in airlocks because nothing can grow (bug wise) in it, just like K-Meta.

Not fully understanding your question/concern over using vodka in an airlock. We don't drink the vodka in the airlock so there are no concerns about any plasticizers leaching out from the plastic in the airlock.

 

[Startwining]

Same reason it's preferred to make it in a "food grade" ferment bucket, or glass.. As a general wine maker you might not consider the airlock having an effect on the taste, and I will entertain the idea because I know most people here have more experience than I do, and have produced delicious wines using balloons, no airlocks, homemade airlocks etc.

How ever from a science standpoint I need to take into every possible variable. Simply for my education, and if it helps the outcome of my wine or anyone else's than fantastic.

Google why they suggest not putting baby formula in plastic bottles any more. Short answer Bisphenal A
There is contact between the air inside the vessel and the airlock which is surrounding your wine. I don't have facts that this will negatively effect it, that was my question.. I guess more of an opinion

My point of today's experiment out of pure bordem while I wait the remaining days to rack to secondary was to question if losing the ethanol that is transferred to the airlocks water from absorption is something to question further.

If you sell wine isn't that what you want? The most product with less waste. Ie being lean, not wasted ethanol.
Or if you make wine for your personal enjoyment you paid for equipment and ingredients, or took the time to grow them. Why waste them?

Also if the water in the airlock becomes alcoholic there is no need to put vodka in it. Once it hits that alcoholic stage it will basically kill anything in it already. Like the vodka

 

[AlFulchino]

i knew we were going to like having you around....

here is something for you to check out...if you leave a wine under airlock and not a solid bung for a yr or more, will you also see evaporation of the naturally occurring water that is in one's wine? ...i have empirically found this answer to be yes..but a scientist's perspective would be welcome...i would imagine that your point about alcohol being in the airlock would coincide w what i am asking

 

[cpfan]

startwhining...

Your wine is still in the primary fermenter. Right?

So the 'fumes' or 'vapours' from the fermentation are entering the air lock to be passed out (or 'burped' out).

That's a little different from aging in the carboy under airlock, because there is no activity (we hope) in the wine. Regardless Al raises an interesting question.

Steve

 

[Startwining]

Cpfan, Yes still in primary.

To correct my self, I do not mean to bulk age using air lock for ten years. I mean as to reuse an airlock for an extended period of time. Say using it X amount of times in a ten year period.

Why throw out an airlock after 10 uses? Well my thought was maybe we should be. Sure probably not 10 uses, but how many would have to be my next batch of research.

Al, I do not have an answer for your question. I will give it much thought tonight and give me best opinion sometime tomorrow.

 

[Startwining]

Today I came in to some exciting but frightening news. After noticing a lag in my airlock activity (I know you cant judge by this and I should take the specific gravity)

I decided hey why not and just take the Sg, however I ordered a new hydrometer last week which was delivered to my house 50 miles away this morning from where I am along with my glass secondary and a few other presents I decided I needed for "research" purposes ie an excuse to buy supplies.

So I calculated the sg a little differently, I first drew a 20ml sample from the bung with a sterilized pipette, filtered it through a .45um filter, then from there drew a 1ml sample, transferred it to a 10ml vessel and weighed it. If I am correct this should be equal to the sg.

( Also tested this theory with water to make sure it would be the same Sg as water should be and it was.)

My must has been fermenting for 9 days since 2/7/12 at a constant temp and humidity of 72degrees 15%Humidity, monitored and logged each day. also Temperature/Humidity controlled.

According to the kit directions I am supposed to wait 14 days to rack to secondary, however from searching other posts and reading I should rack when it reaches around 1.0-.998 or lower. (also suggested from the manufacturer)

I took 3 samples from the 20ml sample and got an average Sg=.967 , my initial was 1.086 according the most posts ive read and the suggested its time to rack. My problem is this weekend being a holiday on Monday I will not be able to get my 6g carboy back here until next week. Mon-wed

No I don't have 6 1g carboys. What can I do? and is it that crucial that it is racked immediately? Frustrating that the only thing keeping me from racking is the lost faith I have in shipping glass to school!


On a side note for anyone who's interested also ran the remaining sample through the spectrophotometer and found that my peak absorbance was way off the charts, seemingly making this a overall dark red wine, after some manipulation I managed to produce a smooth color of 528nm. I decided to take these readings because in the future I would like to know how to alter the colors of wines with out altering any of the other properties, appearance does count right?

 

[cpfan]

According to the kit directions I am supposed to wait 14 days to rack to secondary, however from searching other posts and reading I should rack when it reaches around 1.0-.998 or lower. (also suggested from the manufacturer)

I took 3 samples from the 20ml sample and got an average Sg=.967 , my initial was 1.086 according the most posts ive read and the suggested its time to rack. My problem is this weekend being a holiday on Monday I will not be able to get my 6g carboy back here until next week. Mon-wed

#1...I'll guarantee that the wine isn't at .967. I doubt that kit will drop below .994, and would be extremely surprised if it was below .990.

You started the kit on the 8th? You'll be OK till about the 22nd. Remember that's what the instructions said. It may not be the best way to do it, but it will work. There should be lots of CO2 and some SO2 in the wine to help protect it. Don't do too much poking around in it though. It will disrupt the CO2 layer on the surface of the wine, and release CO2/SO2 from the wine.

Steve

 

[Startwining]

Only poking I've done was removing the airlock, sucking out 20ml with a pipette and putting the airlock back in.. Couldn't have been any longer than 1minute 30 seconds

High value of the 3 readings was 1.017, should it be closer to that?

 

[cpfan]

I'm not the type that takes sg readings daily. When I was making lots of Vino del Vida kits I was running a small Ferment on Premises with 50-80 batches on the go most of the time. Didn't have the time to track sg that closely.

9 days at 72F. I would GUESS that the sg would be in the .995 to 1.000 range. For me, VdeV kits rarely went below about .995. 9 days the ferment could be finished, should be at least almost finished.

Steve

 

[Startwining]

I'm not disagreeing with you.. This is my first kit and I am completely open to suggestions and tips.. I'm just trying to avoid leaving it in the primary for longer than needed..

I could have calculated the sg wrongly, I was just asked by my professor to check the sg for my project.. And unfortunatly dont have access to my hydrometer untill Monday..

I am hoping you are correct because it would suck to have 6.5 gallons wasted. I plan on racking Monday-Tuesday to secondary regardless because my schedule only allows me to monitor it closely on tuesday/thursday which will be the 14th day of fermentation.

Fingers crossed!

 

[AlFulchino]

it has been my experience that new wine makers who are into the nitty gritty control of things get easily worried about what is going on...this is very true of people w a scientific bent towards data

do the lillies of the valley toil??? remember that phrase?

the wine *wants* to make itself ...be patient and watch and learn and you will appreciate a beauty that is beyond our manipulation

and believe it or not but there is science in what i just said

 

[Startwining]

A little update,

I racked to secondary on Tuesday 2/21/12 made sure everything was clean, used an auto siphon(served its purpose well for 6$)

I took the advice found in other threads about tilting the carboy a few days before to allow the lees to settle to one side and siphoned from the other. And I found while cleaning out my primary afterwards there was a significant amount more on the side it leaned too! So the advice was good!

However today Thursday I notice a large amount of lees already settling back on the bottom of the secondary carboy.

I racked to secondary, filled the carboy half-3/4 full to allow my self room to degass.

Added sulphite and degassed
Added Potassium Sorbate and degassed
Added Kieselsol stirred followed by Chitosan and degassed
Topped up with remaining wine from primary, tried heavily not to suck up any sediment from the bottom. And degassed again.

Put in bung/airlock and now playing the waiting game..

I know some lees is expected to fall again, while waiting to bottle, but how much?

Would it hurt to rack again in a week or so, let age, then bottle?

Also I did not add K meta, none came with the kit, nothing was mentioned in the kit about adding, I do happen to have some though, should I add it and when?

Pics will be posted later, dark dark purple..

 

[robie]

A little update,

I racked to secondary on Tuesday 2/21/12 made sure everything was clean, used an auto siphon(served its purpose well for 6$)

I took the advice found in other threads about tilting the carboy a few days before to allow the lees to settle to one side and siphoned from the other. And I found while cleaning out my primary afterwards there was a significant amount more on the side it leaned too! So the advice was good!

However today Thursday I notice a large amount of lees already settling back on the bottom of the secondary carboy.

I racked to secondary, filled the carboy half-3/4 full to allow my self room to degass.

Added sulphite and degassed
Added Potassium Sorbate and degassed
Added Kieselsol stirred followed by Chitosan and degassed
Topped up with remaining wine from primary, tried heavily not to suck up any sediment from the bottom. And degassed again.

Put in bung/airlock and now playing the waiting game..

I know some lees is expected to fall again, while waiting to bottle, but how much?

Would it hurt to rack again in a week or so, let age, then bottle?

Also I did not add K meta, none came with the kit, nothing was mentioned in the kit about adding, I do happen to have some though, should I add it and when?

Pics will be posted later, dark dark purple..

You mentioned you added "sulfite" and degassed. "Sulfite" is Kmeta. They are one and the same, so you are fine.

When you added the clearing agents (finings), more sediment is expected to fall out; that's why they are added. What you see falling out is the stuff the clearing agents are removing from your wine in order to make it clear. Your instructions should say how long to wait for the clearing agents to work before you rack again. It is generally something like 10 days to 3 weeks.

Even after you rack off what has fallen from the clearing agents, if you let the wine set for another month or two, you will likely get another dusting of sediment... that's why most of us don't get into any hurry to bottle. If you bottle too quickly, that last dusting of sediment will end up in your bottles.

 

[Startwining]

Quick update as the process continues.

If you've been following: racked from PET primary to glass secondary

Degassed. Stabilized.. The works

Racked from secondary glass 5 gallon carboy to a "better bottle" to remove any large remaining sediment before filtering..

Just waiting for some time to make a homedepot trip to pick up 3/8 x 1/4 hose barbs to connect the filter to vacumm pump! And then it's time to bottle and label.

 

[ibglowin]

Whatchoo talkin' bout Willis!

it has been my experience that new wine makers who are into the nitty gritty control of things get easily worried about what is going on...this is very true of people w a scientific bent towards data....

 

[robie]

You should rack off all that sediment in photo #3 before you try to filter. Any small amount of it that gets into the filter will immediately stop it up. With a home filtering system, you can only successfully filter cleared, clean wine.

Also, the carboy in photo #4 needs topped-off, if you are going to let it set for more than a day or so.

After clearing, I would suggest you let the wine set for a month or so before you filter and bottle. Don't get into a big hurry to bottle.