New to the Forum and winemaking

[Kev]

Just started wine making about a month ago, and have been lurking on this forum most of that time.

Got off to a fast start by by reading these pages. Thanks for sharing your experience.

If I have figured out how to post a pic, you should be able to see what I have started brewing above.

I am located just north of Toronto, and have three places selling wine kits very near by.

Kev

 

[winemaker_3352]

Welcome aboard!!!

 

[cpfan]

Double WOW. That's a really fast start (why didn't I have customers like you when I ran a store). That's a really unique way of displaying the info.

One thing missing...what brands are you doing? Some Winexpert, could be all. But 3 kit stores, should be three different suppliers. Winexpert, Vineco, and Wine Kitz?

Steve

 

[Julie]

Welcome to winemakingtalk

 

[Runningwolf]

Welcome aboard, nice charts!

 

[Wade E]

Oh boy, you are to serious start! Which exact kits are these as together we've done probably every kit out there and know which ones are the better ones and we like to share this info so that others don't waste their money.

 

[Arne]

Welcome Kev, Looks like you are off to a great start. Best start saving bottles, you are going to have a lot of bottling to do one of these days. Arne.

 

[Flem]

Welcome to the forum, Kev!

 

[SarahRides]

Welcome!! You certainly look organized! I'm lucky if I can actually read my handwritten notes!

 

[ibglowin]

Dang, that's a quick start out of the gates for sure....

You should fit in real well around these parts!

 

[Kev]

Thanks to all for the warm welcome.

One thing missing...what brands are you doing? Some Winexpert, could be all. But 3 kit stores, should be three different suppliers. Winexpert, Vineco, and Wine Kitz?

Steve

Mostly Winexpert at this point.

The Cab Franc is RJS Hi Tail En Premier.

The Amarone, NZ Pinot Noir, Stags leap Merlot, and Chocolate Port are Wine Kitz

Wine Kitz has the nicest store, but their process skips secondary fermentation, going to dry in the primary. I am told this is to save time for the u vint side of the operation. Being a newbie, I get a little nervous leaving it sit in the primary once the activity dies down. Might make sense when using skins. Also some initial testing showed their labels are difficult to remove. Winexpert has mylar labels in their premium product that peel off real easy.

Winexpert also seems to put benonite in all their wines, Wine kitz only the white. Winexpert gives double yeasts in many of the big reds, Wine Kitz only in the Port. Winexpert wins a lot more awards.

Both these guys give 10-15% discounts when you buy 2 or more kits at once. The Winexpert store seems to use a lower markup than Wine Kitz, when I compare with on-line pricing.

I am told these two ( along with Vinco) are the same company anyway ( Global Vitners - Peller estates), but they seem different in their approach.

The RJS store was a little snotty, they tried to sell me a $75 wine aerator. Don't feel a need to go back there unless I hear of something I really want to try. Until I bottle I have no more carboy room anyway.

Of course the biggest deciding factor will be taste of the final product, and that is 6-12 months away.

Kev

 

[Kev]

Welcome aboard, nice charts!

Thanks, the charts are Brew Trax.

 

[Kev]

Oh boy, you are to serious start! Which exact kits are these as together we've done probably every kit out there and know which ones are the better ones and we like to share this info so that others don't waste their money.

Wade, I will be using Brew Trax to do tastining notes at various points after 6 month mark, and am happy to share the info. Of course taste is a very personal thing. I like big dry reds. i took the advice I read here and bought premium ( larger volume of juice ) kits, so hopefully I will not have anything no drinkable, unless i screw something up

 

[Kev]

Welcome Kev, Looks like you are off to a great start. Best start saving bottles, you are going to have a lot of bottling to do one of these days. Arne.

Bottling is planned to start late Feb. I tried cleaning the labels off commercial wine bottles and that was a big pain. So I am buying empties, and will recycle my own, with easy to remove labels. We have a local real winery that also sells juice. I don't by that, but they have cheap glassware. 75 cents a bottle. $25.00 for a 6 gallon (23 L) carboy. 16 carboys adds up.

At least I know some of this wine will get to age.

 

[Kev]

Welcome!! You certainly look organized! I'm lucky if I can actually read my handwritten notes!

I have trouble with the had written notes on the carboy tags too. Particularly when it has red wine spilled on it. Anybody know a wine thief that does not dribble?

 

[cpfan]

Kev:

A couple of comments...

1) RJS & Vineco include bentonite in all kits.
2) Some RJS instructions are ferment to dry in primary.
3) Winexpert, Vineco, Wine Kitz, Heron Bay (if they still exist), and now Cellar Craft are all part of Global Vintners. But I wouldn't say that they are the same company.
4) Winexpert wins more medals because they are the biggest kit seller in the US (and maybe Canada), resulting in the most wines entered.
5) For some of those kits, eg the HighTail and the Amarone, drinking should much more than 6-12 months away.

Steve

 

[Kev]

Kev:

A couple of comments...

1) RJS & Vineco include bentonite in all kits.

(( Good to know, helps with clarity and yeast formation I am told.))

2) Some RJS instructions are ferment to dry in primary.

(( Not the Cab Franc, perhaps when on skins?))

3) Winexpert, Vineco, Wine Kitz, Heron Bay (if they still exist), and now Cellar Craft are all part of Global Vintners. But I wouldn't say that they are the same company.

(( Do you think they use common juice, and just rebrand? I see the Vineco plant is in St Catherines. I wonder if it all originates there, or if these companies are totally seperate with a common owner. You would think it would make sense to consolidate purchasing.))

4) Winexpert wins more medals because they are the biggest kit seller in the US (and maybe Canada), resulting in the most wines entered.

(( Interesting - would biggest not tend to be the best??))

5) For some of those kits, eg the HighTail and the Amarone, drinking should much more than 6-12 months away.

(( For some of it, I hope that is the case. Wine Kitz store owner gave me a 3-3 rule for reds. Not before 3 months, not after 3 years. This leads to a cork discussion as well. Aglomerated for 1 year, solid for two, and synthetic for three, is what I have been advised. Bought some of each, as I have no experience. The big threat to aging will be consumption disease The only treatment for that will be increased production, but if I bring home anymore carboys, wife will wring my neck))

((Kev))

 

[cpfan]

Kev:

1) The RJS non-grape skin brands seem to be 14 day primary fermentations. En Primeur is a grape-skin brand, and the EP HighTail kits, even though no skins, use the standard EP instructions. Confused?

2) Winexpert in BC, Vineco (Wine Kitz, Cellar Craft, Artful Winemaker) in Ontario. Common juices, maybe sometimes. Definitely some overlap in purchasing between Peller's wineries & kit companies. Common winemakers, nope. Wine Kitz and Cellar Craft used to be separate companies at separate facilities with separate winemakers. Not sure what the current situation is for winemakers.

3) Biggest = Best? Hmmmm. I'll choose not to agree with that. Example, is Lamborghini the biggest car maker? Might be the best car maker. See if you can find the Dec 2011-Jan2012 "Top 100 Kits" Winemaker mag issue. Four reds, but no grape skin kits that I could identify in the Top 10 (first ones at 13-14-15).

4) The hobby is not wine making. It's "Carboy Collecting", and you might as well do something with those carboys. Right?

Steve