new welding kit advice

[balatonwine]

Not a welder but brazing (with a torch) is generally not as useful as welding.

Well, actually, like most things... rather it depends.

For example, many high quality steel custom bikes are brazed not welded. The tubes are brazed to the cast headset or bottom bracket components. Welding melts both metals, but brazing preserves the shape of the components. Which may be intricate shaped and designed. Without loss of strength.

Silver soldering, such as with jewelry, or making model steam engines and boilers use brazing, not welding.

And so on.

So, again. It depends. Depends on the topic, desired results, etc. etc. etc. So in some cases, brazing may be in fact more desirable than welding. Hope this helps.

 

[Ajmassa]

From my vantage point, it is weird that you post this today!

I have always been a welder "dilletante." I have used oxy/acetylene in the past. I broke down a few years ago and bought a MIG unit. This is nice, in that it is sort of a "hot glue gun for metal" within certain parameter restrictions. However, just today, I was thinking that I should break down and buy a TIG welder (in my retirement )

AFAIK, you cannot do much with stainless other than with TIG. So, if SS is a requirement, go TIG.

I knew this forum would have some useful info for me!
And yeah definitely had a few SS projects in mind. I tend to be a pack rat- and have done a ton of work in hospitals over the years. Tons of SS shelving, carts, cabinetry, etc that ive accumulated over the years always telling myself - “one day i’ll gear up to work on these”.

i also want to install SS sidesplashes around my wine sink. but the sink has rounded edges so would require a little craftiness i’m sure the more i think about it the more uses i would think if. So far this thread has offered a ton of useful info which is greatly appreciated.

 

[Ajmassa]

information overload!




i may be stepping into a new obsession here.
And tbh this part of it right now —-the narrowing down what my first few purchases should be to gear up is just part of the fun.

My home shop i’ve got a little mechanic corner, electrical, plumbing (just using the little handheld propane torch for sweating pipes), but obviously it’s mostly woodworking. And aside from the grinders, hacksaws and carborundum saw, my metal work tools fit in one drawer. oh and a decent bench grinder on a stand.

I never got into it before because it seemed like a deep knowledge was necessary. i was in my early 20’s on a job building a pedestrian bridge/treehouse thing >Morris Arboretum Promo < and I asked the welder to attach some galvanized brackets to the framing for me so i could set my decking to this giant birds nest thing (seen in the video) and he just laughed at me. He then threw so much info at me so fast i walked away thinking - “thats just too damn complicated for me to worry about understanding right now”. Tho i did thoroughly enjoy the welding classes i took around that time.

My dad is getting up there in years and has been scaling down his home shop a lot. Taking his old craftsman belt/disc sander & stand off his hands, which i’m excited for. But there’s some old metal tools collecting dust too. torch and tanks etc. I’m gonna see what’s laying around and useful there first before making any purchasing decisions. Definitly planning to set myself up with a proper welding station & cart @CDrew. Just need to figure in what to get.

and @balatonwine i was solder repairing some silver jewelry just today actually. standing up hunched over working at my workbench while talking to the mrs. All of a sudden i felt a pinch in my lower back. I wasn’t even moving. pinched right in the spine. And i was on the ground in serious pain! assuming a pinched a nerve somehow. Took a few min to get back in my feet.

Now i’m wearing my back brace like an old man, trying to bottle wine and wincing as i lift carboys!

 

[NorCal]

I’ve had a Lincoln 110v mig, flux core unit for close to 20 years. I use the heck out of it. Just fixed a gate for a lady yesterday, where her horse kicked it. I’ve made motor mounts, arts and craft stuff, a definite tool in the garage.

 

[Johnd]

@Ajmassa , don’t overthink it. I went through your current travel path 6 months ago, you know me, endless, needless research, but ended up with the 110V Lincoln 140 MP, purchased straight from Lincoln’s website. Wanted 240 V, which worked at home, but not at the property, works like a charm. Did lots of stick welding earlier in life, was pretty good at it, and liked it. One of my buddies said “just get the MIG, you’ll love it”, so ended up with the multi-process machine. I have stick welded once with it, but absolutely fell in love with MIG welding, it’s all I do now, unless there’s a special purpose to stick or TIG weld.

I’m assuming you know the basics. Stick welding uses rods with flux on the outside of the rods, the flux protects the hot metal as it solidifies. MiG welders have a wire feeder and push electricity and wire into the weld zone, along with inert gas to protect the metal while it’s hot. Flux core welding uses the wire feeding MiG setup, but without the shielding gas, as the wire used has flux in the core to protect the hot metal. TIG welding also uses an inert gas (the gas depends upon the metal you’re welding), the electrode is used to heat the parent metal(s) while you feed in your welding rod with the other hand, unless you get a spool gun, which feeds for you.

In all three processes, polarity is important to the desired results, particularly penetration of the weld. For me, MiG is too easy to pass up for everyday stuff, beautiful welds, no slag to chip or brush, super easy to learn. Like you, I also wanted capabilities to do stainless and aluminum in addition to steel. Haven’t needed that yet, but I got it.

 

[Ajmassa]

@Ajmassa , don’t overthink it. I went through your current travel path 6 months ago, you know me, endless, needless research, but ended up with the 110V Lincoln 140 MP, purchased straight from Lincoln’s website. Wanted 240 V, which worked at home, but not at the property, works like a charm. Did lots of stick welding earlier in life, was pretty good at it, and liked it. One of my buddies said “just get the MIG, you’ll love it”, so ended up with the multi-process machine. I have stick welded once with it, but absolutely fell in love with MIG welding, it’s all I do now, unless there’s a special purpose to stick or TIG weld.

I’m assuming you know the basics. Stick welding uses rods with flux on the outside of the rods, the flux protects the hot metal as it solidifies. MiG welders have a wire feeder and push electricity and wire into the weld zone, along with inert gas to protect the metal while it’s hot. Flux core welding uses the wire feeding MiG setup, but without the shielding gas, as the wire used has flux in the core to protect the hot metal. TIG welding also uses an inert gas (the gas depends upon the metal you’re welding), the electrode is used to heat the parent metal(s) while you feed in your welding rod with the other hand, unless you get a spool gun, which feeds for you.

In all three processes, polarity is important to the desired results, particularly penetration of the weld. For me, MiG is too easy to pass up for everyday stuff, beautiful welds, no slag to chip or brush, super easy to learn. Like you, I also wanted capabilities to do stainless and aluminum in addition to steel. Haven’t needed that yet, but I got it.

thanks man. that’s actually a really helpful perspective. Especially that first sentence. Appreciate it.

 

[Kantuckid]

I am a trained millwright by an 8,000 hour apprenticeship plus a former helo mechanic, cars & trucks too. For your SS project I'd never consider buying a welder-it's not logical for one or two small DIY projects. Take it to a pro! If you'd said you were a farmer who somehow didn't already know how to weld I'd have suggested training then buying a stick welder/MIG welder. Anyone who's thinking of buying a welder should first know how to weld then they'll know whats joined via which processes and also fabrication and/or mechanical knowledge matters in a very basic way for anything except the most basic repairs which are probably more logical, again, by hiring a pro. Actually MIG is by far and easily the easiest hands on welding to learn a basic bead. Stick welding is trickier but also not too tricky and after a bit you'll not be sticking the rod so much. position matters hugely and progresses from horizontal flat to vertical flat to overhead flat to pipes and tubes and takes many, many hours in a booth to learn a professional level of skill. A repair is far more than can you weld it-you need to understand how the part functions and other possible issues such as heat damage to adjacent parts, etc..
I'd have to disagree that a sort of nasty weld is OK for anything? Gas is not too difficult but skill required varies for the job at hand. Brazing is not restricted to brass and copper? It's far more versatile than that!
I used to build wrecks as a sideline but as I've aged out I sold my MIG used for AB work and have tried to sell my oxy/actly tanks & gauges but not sold yet. I still farm & log some but can get along fine by having stuff done for me even though I have the skill set. On welds that ask for a VG weld I'd practice some before I made the weld as I've never been a daily welder even though I knew how.
This thread reminds me of all those people who've been buying sawmills during covid yet don't even know basic wood knowledge such as tree species, drying lumber and much more. Start with the basics no matter if it's metal or wood!

 

[Ajmassa]

I am a trained millwright by an 8,000 hour apprenticeship plus a former helo mechanic, cars & trucks too. For your SS project I'd never consider buying a welder-it's not logical for one or two small DIY projects. Take it to a pro! If you'd said you were a farmer who somehow didn't already know how to weld I'd have suggested training then buying a stick welder/MIG welder. Anyone who's thinking of buying a welder should first know how to weld then they'll know whats joined via which processes and also fabrication and/or mechanical knowledge matters in a very basic way for anything except the most basic repairs which are probably more logical, again, by hiring a pro. Actually MIG is by far and easily the easiest hands on welding to learn a basic bead. Stick welding is trickier but also not too tricky and after a bit you'll not be sticking the rod so much. position matters hugely and progresses from horizontal flat to vertical flat to overhead flat to pipes and tubes and takes many, many hours in a booth to learn a professional level of skill. A repair is far more than can you weld it-you need to understand how the part functions and other possible issues such as heat damage to adjacent parts, etc..
I'd have to disagree that a sort of nasty weld is OK for anything? Gas is not too difficult but skill required varies for the job at hand. Brazing is not restricted to brass and copper? It's far more versatile than that!
I used to build wrecks as a sideline but as I've aged out I sold my MIG used for AB work and have tried to sell my oxy/actly tanks & gauges but not sold yet. I still farm & log some but can get along fine by having stuff done for me even though I have the skill set. On welds that ask for a VG weld I'd practice some before I made the weld as I've never been a daily welder even though I knew how.
This thread reminds me of all those people who've been buying sawmills during covid yet don't even know basic wood knowledge such as tree species, drying lumber and much more. Start with the basics no matter if it's metal or wood!

when i said sloppy welds i just meant dirty. a less than perfect looking weld but still structurally sound. with some splatter/slag i guess, or spots where the rod stuck. i’m just basing that off my stick welding classes from my apprenticeship. i do remember if i went too slow the metal would deform and have a belly. idk. all those little growing pains that get better in time. I’m usually going to practice whatever it is i’m doing before working on the finished piece. from if a blade will chip the wood, or if a certain grit sandpaper will scuff- anything really. that’s just second nature for me before committing to the actual work piece.
Stick welding is all i really knew. MIG is foreign to me but after a little research definitely seems doable. I gotta assume it’s the most used general purpose welding tool for a good reason. Thanks for the advice.

 

[jswordy]

Been using a Hobart Ironman 210 MIG, I dunno, for almost 20 years I guess on the farm. Works good. I weld hot rod projects and fix farm equipment, build smokers, etc. It'll do thin sheet metal up to 1/2" thick steel. Optional spool guns for aluminum and SS available

 

[Ajmassa]

No welder just yet. But did start the crusher/destemmer cart project.
Last year was the 1st time I used the stand & shoot. And I hated it. Super wobbly and brutal to set up/breakdown myself. Told myself I would rig up something proper.

I had this SS hospital medicine cart thing. I liked that it’s heavy duty yet not overly bulky.

I got a good chunk of work done and hopefully the next time I jump on it it I can finish up.
There’s probably better ways to go about this, but this is what I envisioned and just went with it.


Yeah I’m digging it already. Definitely feels strong enough. And taking up minimal footprint. Would love to find time to give the C/D a proper makeover as well. It’s crying for it. Envisioning an EVH paintjob

 

[CDrew]

HaHa. All that uni-strut. But you should still get a welder because it's just cool. And you could fabricate a kick-A$$ cart for your crusher/destemmer and chute. Go take a class. Really. SIgn up and go and learn from a pro. There is also good instruction on Jody's tips and tricks. This guy is a great teacher and welder. Very good You Tube videos. He walks you through all the reasons, the steps, and the welding itself.

You have a long road if stainless is your goal. But you can do a lot with just mild steel and a welder.

It's almost fall, isn't it? Looks like you are getting ready. So good luck!

 

[Ajmassa]

HaHa. All that uni-strut. But you should still get a welder because it's just cool. And you could fabricate a kick-A$$ cart for your crusher/destemmer and chute. Go take a class. Really. SIgn up and go and learn from a pro. There is also good instruction on Jody's tips and tricks. This guy is a great teacher and welder. Very good You Tube videos. He walks you through all the reasons, the steps, and the welding itself.

You have a long road if stainless is your goal. But you can do a lot with just mild steel and a welder.

It's almost fall, isn't it? Looks like you are getting ready. So good luck!

One day man. It was hard enough just to find time for this. And tbh I didn’t even have it. My goal was to clean the garage. Ended up jumping into this instead. Lol.
As far as prep goes- you are looking at the extent of it. Been a little chaotic lately and haven’t put much thought into this fall yet with a lot goin on in my life at the moment. But I’m optimistic everything works out in the end and will be able to have a successful wine season.

 

[sour_grapes]

Sometimes, don't you wish you were one of them Swenson kids? They probably know how to weld...

 

[Jim Welch]

winemakers are a crafty and versatile group so i wanted to seek some advice.

i want to purchase a welding kit for home shop use, repairs, and different little fabrication projects but my knowledge is extremely limited. When i started to look into this for a “homeowner friendly” type of kit i realized there’s a lot i don’t know.

I am a carpenter by trade. But back when i served my apprenticeship we did have a few welding classes with the oxy/acetylene torch & stick welding. a lot of guys struggled but i picked it up nicely. That’s the extent of my experience. 17 yrs ago.

so if anyone’s familiar with the differences between flux and stick welding, would love to hear your thoughts/recommendations. i don’t care about cutters. i’ll just use saws & grinders for that. But i would like to be able to weld multiple types of metal, stainless steel included.

Lots of good points brought up, I was the welder in the maintenance shop at a port for over 20 years welding, doing repairs and fabrication of custom equipment attachments. Stick and MIG welding and dabbling in TIG although, since I know that just because I can run a TIG bead does not make me a TIG welder, I do not call myself a TIG welder.
Welding is the process where two or more pieces of metal are joined by the melting and mixing of the base metal usually with the addition of a filler metal. In welder ng there is actual fusion of the pieces being joined.
Soldering and brazing while similar to each other differ from welding in that there is no material fusion. Two or more pieces are heated to a particular heat range and another metal is melted over and around the joint(s) forming a mechanical connection.
One can indeed make nice welds in stainless using the MIG process provided one uses the correct base stainless metal, the correct filler metal, and very important the correct inert gas.
I personally have made many many welds in stainless over the years using a Tri-mix gas, 90%helium 7.5%argon and 2.5% CO2. It is not a cheap gas mix but saves A LOT of clean up work and yields a very nice and strong weld.
I have not and would not attempt a “sanitary” weld with the MIG process, that is the TIG process’ forte. But unless you want to make food grade equipment the MIG process can make fine welds in stainless steels. I have joined 304, 308, 316 as well as the L series of these stainless alloys using the aforementioned tri mix gas.
If you really want to get a welder, and I’m not trying to disabuse you of that idea because it is nice to have one, I would “cry once” and get a good welder.
Personally I’m a Miller man when it comes to welders, I’ve never ever been disappointed with any Miller equipment. Lincoln makes good welders too, they are Millers main competition.
I’d recommend you look at the Miller-Matic line. I have an old 175 and I’ve done some large jobs with it. It can be wired for 120v or 240v, it has been superceded by newer models, the 211 looks pretty nice and roughly comparable!
As has been mentioned, you will need a helmet, don’t go cheap on a helmet! Even if you go cheap on a welder get a high quality auto darkening one, they’re amazing. Also very important are good welding clothes, if your getting pin prick burns while trying to learn to weld it will be more difficult and remember a welder operator should be as comfortable as the process and position allow. You want to focus on the weld as much as possible. I wear FR clothing when I weld and when I carbon arc gouge its full leather over that but I don’t think you’ll need leather.
Now all this stuff I’ve recommended is going to run you probably $2k, plus or minus, probably plus. I see you are not far from me so I’d tell you to go to Keen gas and see what they have, they often have good used equipment that you can get for a decent price though I’m not sure how the various Covid related supply issues have affected that.
If you do decide to buy from Keen, come to Delaware, you’ll save on the sales tax.
Again, I can’t say enough good things about Miller welders.

 

[Ajmassa]

Sometimes, don't you wish you were one of them Swenson kids? They probably know how to weld...

lol. Well get this - over the summer I did a some work at our old alma mater installing some ceilings- and while there I learned they’ve actually added welding to their curriculum. Got themselves a nice legit shop too. Was pretty cool to hear that.

And for the record I was taught to weld back during my apprentiship- just like those Swenson kids! (I mentioned in OP) Philly JAC unfortunately cut out the welding shortly after I finished.

But knowing how to weld & torch cut is very different than understanding all the nuances involved enough to make a confident investment and not be a reckless uninformed purchase. For the meantime grinders, drill bits, & nuts & bolts will serve me well.

 

[Ajmassa]

Lots of good points brought up, I was the welder in the maintenance shop at a port for over 20 years welding, doing repairs and fabrication of custom equipment attachments. Stick and MIG welding and dabbling in TIG although, since I know that just because I can run a TIG bead does not make me a TIG welder, I do not call myself a TIG welder.
Welding is the process where two or more pieces of metal are joined by the melting and mixing of the base metal usually with the addition of a filler metal. In welder ng there is actual fusion of the pieces being joined.
Soldering and brazing while similar to each other differ from welding in that there is no material fusion. Two or more pieces are heated to a particular heat range and another metal is melted over and around the joint(s) forming a mechanical connection.
One can indeed make nice welds in stainless using the MIG process provided one uses the correct base stainless metal, the correct filler metal, and very important the correct inert gas.
I personally have made many many welds in stainless over the years using a Tri-mix gas, 90%helium 7.5%argon and 2.5% CO2. It is not a cheap gas mix but saves A LOT of clean up work and yields a very nice and strong weld.
I have not and would not attempt a “sanitary” weld with the MIG process, that is the TIG process’ forte. But unless you want to make food grade equipment the MIG process can make fine welds in stainless steels. I have joined 304, 308, 316 as well as the L series of these stainless alloys using the aforementioned tri mix gas.
If you really want to get a welder, and I’m not trying to disabuse you of that idea because it is nice to have one, I would “cry once” and get a good welder.
Personally I’m a Miller man when it comes to welders, I’ve never ever been disappointed with any Miller equipment. Lincoln makes good welders too, they are Millers main competition.
I’d recommend you look at the Miller-Matic line. I have an old 175 and I’ve done some large jobs with it. It can be wired for 120v or 240v, it has been superceded by newer models, the 211 looks pretty nice and roughly comparable!
As has been mentioned, you will need a helmet, don’t go cheap on a helmet! Even if you go cheap on a welder get a high quality auto darkening one, they’re amazing. Also very important are good welding clothes, if your getting pin prick burns while trying to learn to weld it will be more difficult and remember a welder operator should be as comfortable as the process and position allow. You want to focus on the weld as much as possible. I wear FR clothing when I weld and when I carbon arc gouge its full leather over that but I don’t think you’ll need leather.
Now all this stuff I’ve recommended is going to run you probably $2k, plus or minus, probably plus. I see you are not far from me so I’d tell you to go to Keen gas and see what they have, they often have good used equipment that you can get for a decent price though I’m not sure how the various Covid related supply issues have affected that.
If you do decide to buy from Keen, come to Delaware, you’ll save on the sales tax.
Again, I can’t say enough good things about Miller welders.

Thanks for the detailed reply. Sending you a PM.

 

[Jim Welch]

Thanks for the detailed reply. Sending you a PM.

Ok, I’m happy to help.

 

[Ajmassa]

Made some more progress on the C/D mobile unit. Basically finished. Just need to permanently mount the uni-strut frame into place, add a spray plate, and then get that SS buffed & shining. I was worried those cuts would make it flimsy but still more than strong enough. And the 1/16” edging trim I used around the radius cuts worked out better than anticipated.

But now comes the real headache: stripping down & cleaning up this
dinosaur.

 

[Ajmassa]

This C/D is over 30 yrs old with multiple layers of paint that is all chipping off at varying degrees all over the place. And if you’re not familiar with C/D’s like this one— there are ALOT of nooks & crannies.

Not sure how I’ll go about it yet. Power washer, orbital sander w/ heavy grit disks, a wire brush attachment on a grinder/drill (did some test spots with this), or maybe that stacked sandpaper buffer thing for grinders. Or all of the above. I probably won’t strip 100%. Just the compromised areas- which is majority. I wanna get rubber rollers if they’ll fit too.
Some insight is welcomed here. I’m shooting from the hip. If time becomes an issue I’ll do it in 2 phases
1. Inside hopper and thru interior (anywhere grapes come in contact)
Everything else on the outside

oh also- Anyone know the make of this C/D? All I have is that “M” insignia. Nothing online. I believe it was Italian.
@JohnT you happen to remember ?

 

[mainshipfred]

Made some more progress on the C/D mobile unit. Basically finished. Just need to permanently mount the uni-strut frame into place, add a spray plate, and then get that SS buffed & shining. I was worried those cuts would make it flimsy but still more than strong enough. And the 1/16” edging trim I used around the radius cuts worked out better than anticipated.

But now comes the real headache: stripping down & cleaning up this
dinosaur. View attachment 77565View attachment 77566View attachment 77567

Looks really nice AJ.