No nose

[Rice_Guy]

Aging is thought to be less important than the temperature where you run your fermentation. Low fermentation temp is used to retain fruity aroma.
Do you have other space? Some folks in the vinters club safely ferment in the garage with no heat. Yes it gets slushy and stops in january, , , but it works. When I run low temp I put a temperature controller on the fridge and do age at basement temp.

The only thing difference I can think of is his wine cellar is cold between 9 and 12 c depending on time of year , mine is closer to 18 . What’s your opinions on the proper temp for aging wine ?

 

[joeswine]

Wine doesn't like warm climates speeds up the processes for the good or bad,cooler climates slow the wine down and allows the process to happen naturally. Make sense?
Always remember the structure has had to be there from the start for all this to happen.

 

[winemanden]

Just to clarify, I wasn’t suggesting vacuum would improve taste per se, only that it would ensure removal of dissolved CO2, which absolutely mutes flavors.

Jbo

So, if CO2 mutes flavours, why do people spend so much cash buying wine that has been carbonated ( Champagne style or otherwise)? Isolation Nitpicking again, me that is not you

 

[crackermonkey]

Aging is thought to be less important than the temperature where you run your fermentation. Low fermentation temp is used to retain fruity aroma.
Do you have other space? Some folks in the vinters club safely ferment in the garage with no heat. Yes it gets slushy and stops in january, , , but it works. When I run low temp I put a temperature controller on the fridge and do age at basement temp.

I ferment usually by the specs of the kit which is always between 18 -22 so you think I should try fermenting at less than 18 .
I store my of 8 months or older In 120 bottle wine fridge , temperature now lowered to 15 degrees Celsius, bulk aging carboys I just lowered to 15 as well In a temperature controlled room .
And I am about to purchase an old Pepsi cooler which I plan to convert to a wine fridge and try aging some of my wine at much cooler temperature.

 

[joeswine]

Your talking about 2 different things.
Wine that is created to have a carbonation and or processes that need to be removed from a wines natural finish.

 

[winemanden]

Just been vacuuming. Hmm, this wine smells and tastes the same as before I started. Sorry, vacuuming the living room doesn't count.

 

[Rice_Guy]

So, if CO2 mutes flavours, why do people spend so much cash buying wine that has been carbonated ( Champagne style or otherwise)

CO2 changes the flavor. If you take a soda and let the gas out it will taste “flat” the pH is higher, it seems to taste sweeter, it will lose the slight bitter carbonic notes, the TA will have decreased. You can also see these difference with sparking water.
Yes some vendors will buy a low TA white wine, carbonate it and sell as a sparkling. It goes back to the concept of balancing flavor. Sugar brings out fruity notes but to balance sugar a beverage will be formulated with acid and/or tannin and/or other bitter flavors.

 

[Rice_Guy]

Kits are designed to ferment fast for immediate gratification. A red is usually built with tannic flavor backbone that won’t volatilize, so folks accept tannic as normal.
You could run at the bottom temp of the yeast, for many 10C / 50F.

I ferment usually by the specs of the kit which is always between 18 -22 so you think I should try fermenting at less than 18C

 

[Ted Brumleve]

Made a kit white several years ago that went through primary in the 72F kitchen and smelled wonderful. At bottling, it had almost no flavor or aroma. Nearby professional winemaker said "Oh, I ferment all my whites at 64F. My pole barn has serious A/C." My basement is not 64F, but it is cooler than 72F. Time to find another fridge?

 

[joeswine]

Remember what I said about temp verses fermentation = outcome depending on structure of the base quality.

 

[jsbeckton]

Never had any real nose on any kit that I have ever made. It’s one of my gripes with kits.

 

[crackermonkey]

Ok guys , so now I’m I bit paranoid I have not been degassing enough ,just uncorked my super Tuscan I just bottle two weeks ago after 3 months bulk aging . I poured i tiny bit out out my thumb over the top shook it and when removed it went pop ! It does not taste bubbly . So do I un cork them all degas them and re bottle or is the damage done and I ride it out .
oh I’m checking two more bottled batches tonight and bunch bulk aging .

 

[Johnd]

Ok guys , so now I’m I bit paranoid I have not been degassing enough ,just uncorked my super Tuscan I just bottle two weeks ago after 3 months bulk aging . I poured i tiny bit out out my thumb over the top shook it and when removed it went pop ! It does not taste bubbly . So do I un cork them all degas them and re bottle or is the damage done and I ride it out .
oh I’m checking two more bottled batches tonight and bunch bulk aging .

“Degassing” isn’t an activity/step in real winemaking, it’s just something that happens over the time it takes wine to be ready to bottle. When was the last time you visited a winery and while on the tour, the guide said: “And this is the state of the art, Acme QT-375 Gen 2 Degassing Chamber”?

In our impatient world, degassing has been introduced as a way to get your wine ready to bottle earlier. I did it when I made kits, until I wanted to make better wine, then I started using barrels and actually finishing my wines before bottling.

Cant tell you what to do with wine that still has CO2 in it, that’ll have to be your choice, there’s no silver bullet. If it doesn’t bother you, roll with it. If it is noticeable, you might just try giving a bottle a few shakes / poofs when you open it, or aerate / decant upon opening, that may help. Don’t bottle poofy wine, it’s not finished.

 

[Doug’s wines]

Early on I bottled a couple of batches of kit wine that wasnt fully degassed. Every so often I open a bottle and it’s still there. I put it in a decanter, give it several good full swirls, let it sit for about an hour and it seems to take care of the problem. Now I don’t bottle for at least a year, so don’t seem to have the issue anymore.

On dumping - I have an interesting experience on this one. I did a GSM kit that I split with a friend (RJS Primeur Spanish Grenache Syrah) and noticed my half had a lot of gas in it. I dumped the bottles, degassed and rebottled (there’s a thread on this board somewhere about it). He did not. We had the chance to open and taste them side by side recently. on opening his was still gassy (been a little over 2 years) and we both preferred mine. After an hour in the decanter, his was the same or even slightly better (don’t tell him I said that!). The next day mine was vinegar and his was still tasting good... I’m not really sure of the full takeaway as this only represents 1 test, but personally I decided I would probably never dump a batch again just go through the decanting process. Also decided I need to drink the rest of that GSM soon.

hope this helps.

 

[winemanden]

Quite a long time ago I made an Elderberry +Grape concentrate wine following a recipe someone had optimistically called Burgundy. It finished slightly too acid but not enough but not enough to justify fiddling with so when it was ready( no sign of gas), I bottled it. Twelve months later I opened the first bottle. It was gorgeous, but there was a slight fizz with no sediment at all so I assumed must have come form a Malolactic ferment in the bottle. Anyway the wine seemed in good balance. I only regret I haven't been able to replicate it.
Regards to all, Stay safe.

 

[FermentoSapiens]

It’s not anything to with use of vacuum imo. It’s just the nature of (some?) kits. This was one of the biggest differences I’ve noticed in kit wine compared to wine from fresh grapes/juice — the lack of a strong nose/bouquet.
Another thing I noticed was lack of strong legs.

I have not experienced any lack of nose in most kit wines I have made. In fact, the latest I made had really good nose and way better than commercial wine I can afford to buy. It was the Winexpert Eclipse Barossa Valley Shiraz. And the legs are really strong and many. Legs are not low/missing in any kit wine I have made, and I think legs is most about ABV?(not necessarily quality of the wine but high abv. What I think lack in most kit wines is tannin. They have less of that dry mouthfeel than many commersial wines. I have started to use extra tannin because of that.

 

[crackermonkey]

I have not experienced any lack of nose in most kit wines I have made. In fact, the latest I made had really good nose and way better than commercial wine I can afford to buy. It was the Winexpert Eclipse Barossa Valley Shiraz. And the legs are really strong and many. Legs are not low/missing in any kit wine I have made, and I think legs is most about ABV?(not necessarily quality of the wine but high abv. What I think lack in most kit wines is tannin. They have less of that dry mouthfeel than many commersial wines. I have started to use extra tannin because of that.

The only wine I have that has any nose is that excact saa a me wine it took nine months to get there but now it’s great . What temperature do you ferment at ?

 

[FermentoSapiens]

The only wine I have that has any nose is that excact saa a me wine it took nine months to get there but now it’s great . What temperature do you ferment at ?

I try to keep it at 21-22 c. When the fermentation is very active I stirr carefully when I have opened the lid to squeeze the grape bag, and it helps to get the temp back down from 23-24 c. White kits I try to ferment at about18 c in the basement.