WineXpert Not Degassing Enough ?

[MarcOlivetti]

I’m seeing across many of the Wine Kits I’ve made (WE & RJS) what I thought was a soapy firm when first pouring a glass from the bottle. I first thought I hadn’t rinsed my wine glass well enough after washing and a friend I gave a bottle of Cabernet to had made note of the same film? I am meticulous with my cleaning & sanitizing regiment when making wine, so I searched this site and found an example from Wineforfun in Nov. 2016.
This picture perfectly reflects what I’m getting:

After reading responses, and looking closely with a magnifying glass, it does look like very small CO2 bubbles. I’ve since started decanting my wines, letting it “breathe” (as we should, but usually don’t) and don’t see these after a bit (it does happen when first decanting). Bottles are at least 6mo old.

Now for my question? Am I not degassing enough? I typically degass with a wand on my drill 20-30min, reversing even 30 seconds or so, and also rack using the AIO pump. Is there some else I should be doing? Or should I just continue to decant and not worry about it ?? I would hate to have to tell anyone I give a bottle to “you‘ll want to decant, and don’t worry if you see this, it’s only unspent CO2”…

 

[Khristyjeff]

20 to 30 minutes with a drill plus an AIO wine pump sounds like too much degassing. I'm not sure if this is causing the film, but I only rely on AIO for degassing. Seems to be working for me.

 

[josephreese]

I only rely on AIO for degassing. Seems to be working for me.

Are you doing anything special with the AIO pump to degass, or is degassing just a happy byproduct of using the AIO pump to rack?

 

[MarcOlivetti]

One of the many benefits of the AIO is the degassing when racking. I typically rack ~4 times with the AIO through the kit process.

 

[ratflinger]

I spin up my wine once, when it goes in the 1st carboy - 1 min for each one of the packs. After a month it goes to the 2nd carboy. A month latter it goes through a 1 micron filter and then into the Better Bottles for a 3 month bulk aging, minimum. I have no issues with gas in my wine.

BTW - I don't use the AOI, so I can't comment on their effectiveness

 

[winemaker81]

@MarcOlivetti, how quickly are you bottling? When making reds, don't bottle before 6 months.

Are you degassing for 20-30 minutes? WOW! That's way too much. I degas for 20-30 seconds, changing direction 3 to 5 times. This kickstarts the process without introducing O2, as the wine is outgassing heavily.

 

[Khristyjeff]

Are you doing anything special with the AIO pump to degass, or is degassing just a happy byproduct of using the AIO pump to rack?

Happy byproduct.

 

[vacuumpumpman]

I’m seeing across many of the Wine Kits I’ve made (WE & RJS) what I thought was a soapy firm when first pouring a glass from the bottle. I first thought I hadn’t rinsed my wine glass well enough after washing and a friend I gave a bottle of Cabernet to had made note of the same film? I am meticulous with my cleaning & sanitizing regiment when making wine, so I searched this site and found an example from Wineforfun in Nov. 2016.
This picture perfectly reflects what I’m getting: View attachment 79660

After reading responses, and looking closely with a magnifying glass, it does look like very small CO2 bubbles. I’ve since started decanting my wines, letting it “breathe” (as we should, but usually don’t) and don’t see these after a bit (it does happen when first decanting). Bottles are at least 6mo old.

Now for my question? Am I not degassing enough? I typically degass with a wand on my drill 20-30min, reversing even 30 seconds or so, and also rack using the AIO pump. Is there some else I should be doing? Or should I just continue to decant and not worry about it ?? I would hate to have to tell anyone I give a bottle to “you‘ll want to decant, and don’t worry if you see this, it’s only unspent CO2”…

I would like to understand more about your process -
How long prior to bottling -
additions of sulfites -
How many racking's and what intervals -
sanitation process-
Temperatures - etc

CO2 bubbles can by a secondary fermentation ?

I just PM'd you

 

[MarcOlivetti]

Haven’t been able to respond for a few days, I got my Flu & Shingles shots and it knocked me down hard. To answer the questions:

“How quickly are you bottling?” I’ve been bottling my Reds at 4-6 months at first due to the number of batches lined up needing Carboys. I’ve got 8 batches in Carboys right now (4 FWKs) 3-7 months old. I’m holding off buying more due to the cost of glass almost doubling. Ideally I plan on at least 6-12 of aging.

Steve’s questions (I owe him a call too)
“How long prior to bottling” Answer above

“additions of sulfites?” Typical Kit chemicals + 1/4 tsp K-Meta at instructed timing and at 3month rackings.

“How many racking's and what intervals?” 3-4 with the AIO typically
1. W/O Skins, from primary into Carboy with AIO, w/Skins after 6 weeks EM in Big Mouth Bubbler (BMB) into Carboy using AIO, both when reaching 0.998
2. When reaching final SG, traditional racking to bucket and degass with drill whip ~20 min (reversing 30seconds - 1min) then add clearing + 1/4tsp K-Meta racking into Carboy w/ AIO.
3. After Wine is cleared 14-21 days, Filter using 5micron into Carboy using AIO + 1/4tsp K-Meta.
4. Trad racking into bucket w/ 6oz Glycerin, mix w/ Spoon 2min then bottle w/AIO setup (first several batches when needing Carboys for kits); now rack at 3 months + 1/4tsp K-Meta.

“sanitation process?” My process starts once I finish using each item. I first rinse with warm/hot water. Then clean with One-Step using brush. I then use Star San, then hang to dry or place in sanitized 2gal bucket (cleaned the same way with a bit of Star San in the bottom). When I go to use next time, I rinse with warm/hot water. Then clean with One-Step, then spray/flush with K-Meta (1 tbls in 1 gal of water). I stage in the 2gal bucket with same K-Meta solution.

“Temperatures?“ in Primary, I keep at ~75* (try to keep must below 83* or less during PF using EC-1118) while in secondary & Carboys my area is between 65* - 76* depending on time of year.

 

[Rice_Guy]

* a white film that is solid (can you wipe it off with a paper towel?) probably is a bacterial infection/ flowers
* a foam meaning gas bubbles will go away if you let it set ten minutes
* active fermentation will keep the bubbles happening, ,,,, if you have vacuum racked you shouldn’t see bubbles unless it is still fermenting. Beware of bottle bombs.
* temperature is involved in degassing cold holds onto the CO2, so it is useful to have the wine up to the temp you will serve it at.

the original post; Is CO2 important? It is cosmetic, it makes it hard to clarify, it makes the taste spritz/ more acidic, lots of smaller commercial wineries have it , letting it in helps keep the air out.

my answer is that a few bubbles on a glass is not important, if it makes the wine less pleasing / hedonic it is important.

 

[MarcOlivetti]

After these responses and a great call with Steve, I’m convinced that I have nothing to be concerned about. It’s funny how you can look for a problem when there isn’t anything wrong. I did learn that degassing and bottling in sub 70*s can hold on to any remaining CO2. I’m not blowing corks, or finding faults in processes, or have anything to worry about. I’m just going to continue to enjoy the wine and sample often . Thank to all!