Not sorbate after MLF?

[geek]

I had 2 batches that went through mlf, a Cab Sav and a Malbec (both from Chile in juice buckets).

After mlf was over I racked both carboys and added 1/4 tsp kmeta to each 5gal carboy.

One of them I also added sorbate (I think the Malbec) and I was just reading through the forum and found people stating that sorbate after mlf is a no no.

Did I really goo goo...

Now I am worry ...

 

[sdelli]

Yikes.... Never did it but read a lot on this forum not too.... From what I read you will know real soon by the taste. I am sure others will join in for opinions but I would think all you can do now is wait and see. Maybe you'll get lucky!

 

[spaniel]

Does it taste like germaniums?

Yes, you don't want to use sorbate after MLF. Never have, but the stories are not pleasant. The only way to know is to taste it.

 

[geek]

Just took a bit of wine from very top and it seems to taste just like before I added the chems, I mean it tastes fine.

 

[Pumpkinman]

Varis,
Generally, you don't want to add Sorbate after MLF, as stated, it can take on a geranium taste and smell, you may be lucky this time.
Tom

 

[ncwine]

Yea sorbate after mlf is a no no. A geranium smell can occur and give wine a off flavor and smell.

 

[geek]

so....how geranium really tastes/smells like?

Honestly, don't know.

And is there any precaution/measure I could take now or is it just too late and wait and see game?

Wish me luck and hopefully it won't happen but if the geranium problem happens when does it really happen, after a while or intermediately soon after adding the sorbate??
.

 

[Turock]

Theoretically---you can sorbate after an MLF if the wine is absolutely, completely converted by verifying this thru sending it to a lab for testing. But practically speaking, it should never be done because you are running a risk of geranium flavor. You might be lucky this time. But don't ever do that again!!

MLF'd wines are so smooth, after the MLF and proper aging, that even people who dislike dry wines will almost always like a wine that has been thru a proper MLF.

 

[ncwine]

If the geranium smell is present it will have a plant smell like if someone cut grass and took some other plants out as well such as a patch of weeds or small plants a "foxy" smell. When u smell it you will know its pretty easy to detect. There's not much u can do, if it is present u could always go buy a few cheap bottles of wine and try blending it till the geranium smell and taste is gone. I would give it a few weeks and see how it all plays out.

 

[geek]

Thanks all.

One thing is that this time I didn't write a note about which carboy I added the sorbate, darn ..!!
I think I am almost sure it is my Cab Sav (oh no, my favorite..!!) since I know I only had a bottle left over and put it next to the carboy.
It was the first of the 2 carboys I'm sure so I will ask my little daughter who helped me rack the wine that night.

I gave it a taste late last night and no smell or off flavor at all....fingers crossed..!!

 

[Turock]

You should always have tags on the neck of your carboys with the type of wine , date, and any other special notes. I'm not sure if you can find these tags--maybe at a stationary store--they are made of plastic and you can use a grease pencil on them and when you're done, you can wash them off with Lestoil or Goo-Be-Gone and reuse them. I have a whole bunch of them from my former workplace that they threw away. It was an industrial complex--so maybe they came from Granger or other industrial supplier. All of our carboys are tagged, or we'd be SO lost.

Another thing we did one time when we ran out of tags during a large grape ferment---we cut up Cool Whip bowls and made tags out of them. You can clean them up too and re-use them. Out-of-the-box thinking can save you money and lots of searching around.

 

[seth8530]

You could add lyzomes to the wine to kill of the MLF bacteria. This will prevent the bacteria from eating the sorbate and making the smell.I am not sure if this works 100%of the time, but I would give it a try.

 

[Turock]

Actually, that's an excellent idea---I didn't think of that at the time. Good suggestion, Seth.

 

[firejohn03]

Excuse my ignorance, but reading this forum and I have no idea what MLF is. Could someone explain for me?

 

[geek]

You could add lyzomes to the wine to kill of the MLF bacteria. This will prevent the bacteria from eating the sorbate and making the smell.I am not sure if this works 100%of the time, but I would give it a try.

that would be only if the problem comes up, right?
I added the sorbate like around 9 days ago and no issue so far (knock on wood) but I don't know if the problem could arise later down the road and how late... :-(

 

[Turock]

Geek---No, it would be something you use NOW. There are a number of people who don't just rely on meta to kill the remaining MLB. They use lysozyme. It would be a good cautionary stategy to dose the carboy with it.

firejohn--MLF is malo-lactic fermentation. After you perform a primary ferment and the wine is in a carboy, you introduce an MLB (malo-lactic bacteria) into the wine. Because grapes have a lot of malic acid, and some grapes have alot more than others which makes the wine harsh and green tasting, this bactera converts the malic acid into a soft lactic acid. Lactic acid is the same acid in milk. It gives the wine a more robust,soft and somewhat buttery taste. And,of course, it reduces the acid.

 

[seth8530]

Actually, that's an excellent idea---I didn't think of that at the time. Good suggestion, Seth.

Thanks, I am not sure whom I originally heard about doing this from, but I read up on it and even performed it before when I sorbated one of my muscadine wines and it seemed to do the trick.

Excuse my ignorance, but reading this forum and I have no idea what MLF is. Could someone explain for me?

MLF is malic to lactic acid fermentation. What this means is that you inoculate (usually) your wine with ML bacteria which convert malic acid (harsher) into the softer acid (Lactic acid). This can stereotypically create buttered popcorn or creamy taste in addition to rounding out the acid a bit.

Many argue that doing MLF is an important part of stabilizing most grape wines because it is likely to happen on its own later on potentially in the bottle. Also, like alcoholic fermentation the results are often better if you use a specifically trained culture instead of gambling on what mother nature will give you.

that would be only if the problem comes up, right?
I added the sorbate like around 9 days ago and no issue so far (knock on wood) but I don't know if the problem could arise later down the road and how late... :-(

No, you would do it before the problem comes up. The point is to prevent the MLB from ever eating the sorbate and creating these flavours in the first place. Think of it as the plan B pill after a long night partying.

 

[geek]

and....how you use in quantity and where you buy this lyzomes?

 

[seth8530]

Midwest sells it, so does morewine. The amounts should be listed on the package.

 

[geek]

I guess you spell this as lysozyme, right?
I saw that midwest has Lysovin.