Not too soon to start thinking about 2019 Fall Grapes

[jgmann67]

If you plan to do MLF, I wouldn't hit it with sulfite if the fruit is good. C/D into the fermenters with enzyme on Saturday, it'll be ready for you to run numbers / adjust and pitch yeast on Sunday. Any inferior yeast that may try to get a foothold will be quickly overwhelmed by your yeast.

Yes I am planning to co-inoculate. Thank you for the wise counsel as always John.

 

[Boatboy24]

Will miss you at the pickup, Jim. @ceeaton: looking forward to the meetup.

Jim: I'll give a bottle of the Rose to Craig for you. If you don't get it, we know what happened. LOL!

 

[jgmann67]

Will miss you at the pickup, Jim. @ceeaton: looking forward to the meetup.

Jim: I'll give a bottle of the Rose to Craig for you. If you don't get it, we know what happened. LOL!

We’re trying to work out logistics on getting you one of my roses.

 

[ceeaton]

Will miss you at the pickup, Jim. @ceeaton: looking forward to the meetup.

Jim: I'll give a bottle of the Rose to Craig for you. If you don't get it, we know what happened. LOL!

Too many Jim's in this equation, I'm older and easily confused. So let me get this right, I'm giving a @jgmann67 Jim bottle of Rose to @Boatboy24 Jim, and receiving one back that I have to protect from me and my wife. I think I've got this...

@Boatboy24 Jim, did I promise you any of my wines in the past? I have an at times faulty long term memory array.

 

[Boatboy24]

I'm gonna bring a few bottles to give. Don't know what yet. I think you all have the best of my older stuff, and my 2017's just got bottled. It may have to be one of those 'take this wine, and don't drink it for at least 6 months' trade.

 

[jgmann67]

This wine was tasting pretty good a year ago. Today, it’s sour in nose and taste.

I made a huge mistake with this wine. I accidentally left the wine on the oak cubes for an extended period of time... like almost 10 months. And it started forming clumpy bits before I realized my mistake. I racked and dosed the wine. But, the taste is way off. I’m going to rack it again.

Is there anything I can do to save this wine??

 

[Ajmassa]

This wine was tasting pretty good a year ago. Today, it’s sour in nose and taste.

I made a huge mistake with this wine. I accidentally left the wine on the oak cubes for an extended period of time... like almost 10 months. And it started forming clumpy bits before I realized my mistake. I racked and dosed the wine. But, the taste is way off. I’m going to rack it again.

Is there anything I can do to save this wine??

i wouldn’t think that would be caused by the oak in there for extra long tho. i’ve left oak inside the carboy fir super long times just like that as well— figuring once the oak is leached into the wine- what’s the harm? no different than a neutral barrel.

my guess is the issue is from something else. “bitter” sounds like a trait of oxidized wine to me. Anything else u can think of besides the oak? headspace? poor bung seal? anything?

 

[jgmann67]

i wouldn’t think that would be caused by the oak in there for extra long tho. i’ve left oak inside the carboy fir super long times just like that as well— figuring once the oak is leached into the wine- what’s the harm? no different than a neutral barrel.

my guess is the issue is from something else. “bitter” sounds like a trait of oxidized wine to me. Anything else u can think of besides the oak? headspace? poor bung seal? anything?

no. There was definitely something bacterial going on with the wine. I kept the carboys topped and sealed pretty well.

 

[CDrew]

i wouldn’t think that would be caused by the oak in there for extra long tho. i’ve left oak inside the carboy fir super long times just like that as well— figuring once the oak is leached into the wine- what’s the harm? no different than a neutral barrel.

my guess is the issue is from something else. “bitter” sounds like a trait of oxidized wine to me. Anything else u can think of besides the oak? headspace? poor bung seal? anything?

Agree. It sounds like the wine had access to O2, and the sour is acetic acid.

Again, the cube thing is likely not it. Once they give up what they have flavor wise, I think of them as neutral.

As a jump off-what's the pH?

 

[VinesnBines]

You have a couple options. If VA, you might think of blending or making wine vinegar. This is a link to VA issues. The Perils of Volatile Acidity - WineMakerMag.com.

If it is oxidation think about sherry or madeira.

Either (once you decide) is a great opportunity for experimentation and expansion. Though if VA, keep it from the wine making areas/equipment.

 

[jgmann67]

Agree. It sounds like the wine had access to O2, and the sour is acetic acid.

Again, the cube thing is likely not it. Once they give up what they have flavor wise, I think of them as neutral.

As a jump off-what's the pH?

I haven’t checked in a long time. It was in the 3.6 range the last I checked.

I wish I took pics of the floaters too. I think it would have helped.

if I can’t save it, I may just flush it (then drink the rest of the night and cry in my whiskey).

 

[mainshipfred]

I always get confused but I think it's acetobacter the causes acetic acid but it may be the other way around. I believe acetobacter can be filtered out probably with a sterile filter but the only way to get rid of acetic acid is reverse osmosis. I have a Merlot that I made as a blender I'm fighting with myself and may do a .5 micron filter. If I do blend it it will be a small portion. It is one of the few wine faults that are sometime intentionally used to create complexity.

 

[jgmann67]

I haven’t checked in a long time. It was in the 3.6 range the last I checked.

I always get confused but I think it's acetobacter the causes acetic acid but it may be the other way around. I believe acetobacter can be filtered out probably with a sterile filter but the only way to get rid of acetic acid is reverse osmosis. I have a Merlot that I made as a blender I'm fighting with myself and may do a .5 micron filter. If I do blend it it will be a small portion. It is one of the few wine faults that are sometime intentionally used to create complexity.

interestingly, I ordered a filter attachment for my AIO over the weekend with that thought in mind. Maybe filtering will help. I’ll test the wines this weekend and see what my ph is. When I get the equipment in and set up, we’ll run it through a 5 micron filter (then I’ll throw that filter in the trash).

 

[CDrew]

The bacteria make the acetic acid. And if they have already made it, no reason to filter them out.

But no amount of 5 micron filtering is going to remove bacteria. Bacteria are said to be about 0.2 microns.

 

[mainshipfred]

interestingly, I ordered a filter attachment for my AIO over the weekend with that thought in mind. Maybe filtering will help. I’ll test the wines this weekend and see what my ph is. When I get the equipment in and set up, we’ll run it through a 5 micron filter (then I’ll throw that filter in the trash).

You probably want as close to a .5 as you can get.

 

[mainshipfred]

The bacteria make the acetic acid. And if they have already made it, no reason to filter them out.

But no amount of 5 micron filtering is going to remove bacteria. Bacteria are said to be about 0.2 microns.

.45 absolute is supposed to be considered sterile. The closest I can get is .5 nominal. You're right, I just checked, acetobacter is the bacteria that causes acetic acid. If you are able to filter it out won't it stop the production of acetic acid. Although proper sulfite levels will also stop the production.

 

[jgmann67]

.45 absolute is supposed to be considered sterile. The closest I can get is .5 nominal. You're right, I just checked, acetobacter is the bacteria that causes acetic acid. If you are able to filter it out won't it stop the production of acetic acid. Although proper sulfite levels will also stop the production.

So - the recommendations for filtering wines from Steve at AIO are 1 micron for white and 5 micron for red. Going fiber on reds will strip flavor and body. Are you saying use 5 micron or something much finer in the .5 range??

 

[mainshipfred]

So - the recommendations for filtering wines from Steve at AIO are 1 micron for white and 5 micron for red. Going fiber on reds will strip flavor and body. Are you saying use 5 micron or something much finer in the .5 range??

1 and 5 are for filtering sediment and not considered sterile so they won't filter the finer particles like yeasts, acetobacter and the like. I filter all my reds with a 5 just to be safe and whites with a one as he recommends. But you need a .5 to to get anywhere close to getting the smaller particles out.

 

[jgmann67]

1 and 5 are for filtering sediment and not considered sterile so they won't filter the finer particles like yeasts, acetobacter and the like. I filter all my reds with a 5 just to be safe and whites with a one as he recommends. But you need a .5 to to get anywhere close to getting the smaller particles out.

Okay. This is a ball buster... if it’s this or trash, guess it’s this. It’ll be lighter with less body, but it won’t be vinegar at least.

 

[mainshipfred]

Okay. This is a ball buster... if it’s this or trash, guess it’s this. It’ll be lighter with less body, but it won’t be vinegar at least.

If it is vinegar it's still going to be vinegar you're not going to filter that taste. All you are going to do is slow down the production but again the right amount of sulfites will do the same thing. I'll tell you this though, I had/have a 2018 PV that was so offensive to me I was giving it away as cooking wine. Last week a friend came to do some tastings and I could explain to her what VA tasted like so we opened a bottle. Right now I'm kicking myself in the butt for giving it away as it turned into something really nice.