NY Times: The American wine industry has an old people problem

[distancerunner]

I find it interesting that so many of us started drinking wine around age 40. Makes me think it's more complicated than just marketing. Might be a good socio-economic psycho-babble study.

I might be an anomaly but I started drinking wine when I got my under graduate degree and got my 1st real full time job so ~22. Even back then I was wowed by the way wine took food to a whole new level and vice versa. Interestingly my parents did not drink (except at the holidays or social occasions) which were few and far between. When we had dinner parties (once I got married) with friends or my wife's family there was always wine at the dinner table when we had get togethers. It took me a while to graduate from Riunite to more drier things but it happened slowly but surely in just a few years time.

My grandfather was a winemaker. As children, we got sips and even a (very) small glass on holidays. Wine was always on his table. My dad had wine at dinner by the time I was ten years old. It was always there.

Growing up, none of my friends were familiar with using wine. Their dads drank beer. They thought that it was weird that my grandfather made wine.

When I got to college I found out that most of the girls didn't like beer. But they liked sweet wine. I bought a lot of Liebfraumilch. After a while they got bored and graduated to Mouton Cadet. Cheap, reliable, same from year to year.

That's the key. Market to young women. Sweet(ish) and consistent from bottle to bottle at an affordable price.

 

[Rocky]

Fast forward a decade, I was older, more experienced, and had less enthusiasm. I adopted that Dilbert mantra: "Change is good. YOU got first."

That's now me on all fronts. Let someone else bleed. I don't buy anything new -- I let others try it and report on it first.

Same here, Bryan. It used to be exciting to be on the "leading edge" or "bleeding edge," but as I moved up in my career, I was more cautious in my choices. We used to say, "The pioneers were killed by the Indians. The Settlers came later."

As far as when I developed a taste for wine, I am not sure when it was but it is and has been my drink for many decades. We used to get "wine" with dinner on Sunday's when we were kids. It was about 90% water and just enough wine to color the liquid. As we got older, the amount of water decreased until about age 14 when we got a real glass of wine. It was all homemade back then. In my golden years, I have developed a taste for rye whiskey (Angel's Envy is my favorite) and other than when dining, that is my drink of choice.

 

[winemaker81]

The only trouble I've had with drinker reviews from Vivino, etc., is that what is popular is not always what is good. I only wish I had similar results on Vivino as you have had. I have had a number of watery clunkers that rated 3.8 and above there, largely I think because the population of reviewers tends toward novices. I have better luck by finding expert reviewers who haven't let me down and then seeking wines rated well by those people.

Two things to watch -- the number of reviewers AND if the review is for the correct year, or is it an aggregate across years?

I don't consider wines with less then 50 reviewers, unless I have another reason to buy it. I prefer more than 100 reviewers, and while I might rate a wine a point or two under the rating, I've had good luck. [I spotted a Syrah rated at 5/5! WOW!! Except it was only 1 review ....]

I had VERY bad luck when I didn't realize a rating was an aggregate across years. The wine was rated 4.1 at a very good price, so I bought it. Popped the cork, and it was too young. Very green. It had potential ... in a year or two. I looked at Vivinio again and spotted that the rating was across a 10 year span. The vintages of 3 years and older were well rated. The last 2 vintages were not.

When you buy a wine on wine critic reviews, look it up on Vivinio. If you can make it work for you, it's really handy for off-the-cuff purchases.

My grandfather was a winemaker. As children, we got sips and even a (very) small glass on holidays. Wine was always on his table. My dad had wine at dinner by the time I was ten years old. It was always there.

When I was little I'd get a sip of whatever my dad had, either beer, gin & Wink (grapefruit soda), or gin, sloe gin, and orange soda. By the time I was 14 or 15 it was acceptable to have 1 beer, which was sipped, not chugged. When we got done with hunting, we'd get back in the car (rifles unloaded and in the trunk), and my dad had a small flask of wine, and we each had a healthy slug. He's gone, but the memories persist.

 

[jswordy]

I find it interesting that so many of us started drinking wine around age 40. Makes me think it's more complicated than just marketing. Might be a good socio-economic psycho-babble study.

My grandpa made it well, and I used to sit on his lap as a 6-year-old and get a sip or two... So it's been a long relationship.

 

[jswordy]

I might be an anomaly but I started drinking wine when I got my under graduate degree and got my 1st real full time job so ~22. Even back then I was wowed by the way wine took food to a whole new level and vice versa. Interestingly my parents did not drink (except at the holidays or social occasions) which were few and far between. When we had dinner parties (once I got married) with friends or my wife's family there was always wine at the dinner table when we had get togethers. It took me a while to graduate from Riunite to more drier things but it happened slowly but surely in just a few years time.

If I had to put my finger on it, this is exactly what the industry, as an enterprise, lacks – the Gallos and Reunites and Boones Farms and Batles & Jaymes, who poured lots of advertising into these "gateway wines." I have nothing against people developing a highly specialized palate.

But on the contrary, what I am talking about in my posts is what the industry needs to do regarding the basic mechanics of marketing and trade.

 

[jswordy]

Two things to watch -- the number of reviewers AND if the review is for the correct year, or is it an aggregate across years?

I don't consider wines with less then 50 reviewers, unless I have another reason to buy it. I prefer more than 100 reviewers, and while I might rate a wine a point or two under the rating, I've had good luck. [I spotted a Syrah rated at 5/5! WOW!! Except it was only 1 review ....]

I had VERY bad luck when I didn't realize a rating was an aggregate across years. The wine was rated 4.1 at a very good price, so I bought it. Popped the cork, and it was too young. Very green. It had potential ... in a year or two. I looked at Vivinio again and spotted that the rating was across a 10 year span. The vintages of 3 years and older were well rated. The last 2 vintages were not.

When you buy a wine on wine critic reviews, look it up on Vivinio. If you can make it work for you, it's really handy for off-the-cuff purchases.


When I was little I'd get a sip of whatever my dad had, either beer, gin & Wink (grapefruit soda), or gin, sloe gin, and orange soda. By the time I was 14 or 15 it was acceptable to have 1 beer, which was sipped, not chugged. When we got done with hunting, we'd get back in the car (rifles unloaded and in the trunk), and my dad had a small flask of wine, and we each had a healthy slug. He's gone, but the memories persist.

I'm not doing it wrong, and I have definitely moved on from Vivino. Now, you give me a bottle well-reviewed by those trained in Robert Parker's legacy, or by James Suckling, a more than 92-pointer from one or both of them that lies in my regional, varietal and/or blend areas of interest, and that's almost positive to be a sure success on my tongue. (On the other hand, I dismiss out of hand any Tasting Panel reviews, for example.)

That said, the most surprisingly delightful overall commercial wine I discovered in 2022 was Southern Belle, a jammy, open and aromatic Spanish red blend with quite a bit of Tempranillo that was the very first to be aged in used whiskey barrels – Pappy van Winkle barrels, to be precise. It's also modestly priced at around $18-22 a bottle (unless you want to pay more, and then you can). I bought a glass on a lark at a restaurant, and now there's most of a case left in my cellar. It coincidentally does rate 4 on Vivino, I just found out by peeking.

While I am peeking in the other window, the best wine I tasted in '22 was 2018 Long Shadows Pedestal Merlot, which is highly rated by those I respect and a 4.2 at Vivino (I'd rank it 4.6). For around $70 a bottle, though, it OUGHT to be good. Yet that is not always the case.

And I also drank Perrin Donns Pitch Black cab ($11-15), a 3.8 on Vivino, that was very subpar. I'd give it 2 stars or less. But then the $10 and 3.5-Vivino-rated Excelsior to me is a near 4-star wine above its $10 weight. That was another lark, served at a reception dinner, and case of it is in the cellar.

The ~ $15 Chateau Mayne Vieil Fronsac that's a staple in my cellar only rates 3.6 on Vivino, and yet every time I take a bottle to a party, people are snapping photos of it and asking me where I got it.

My Vivino results back when I used it were highly uneven. I do better listening to actual experts who have similar wine views. And I try to rule out price as an indicator of quality anymore. I find it's more fun for me to find a $10-25 bottle that is an eye-opener than a $50 bottle that tastes like it should at that price.

 

[Boatboy24]

I'm not doing it wrong, and I have definitely moved on from Vivino. Now, you give me a bottle well-reviewed by those trained in Robert Parker's legacy, or by James Suckling, a more than 92-pointer from one or both of them that lies in my regional, varietal and/or blend areas of interest, and that's almost positive to be a sure success on my tongue. (On the other hand, I dismiss out of hand any Tasting Panel reviews, for example.)

THIS!!!! It takes time and some wins and losses. But over time, you'll find reviewers whose palate lines up with yours (and those that don't). Follow their lead, but don't be afraid to stray out on your own once in a while.

 

[BigDaveK]

When I was little I'd get a sip of whatever my dad had, either beer, gin & Wink (grapefruit soda), or gin, sloe gin, and orange soda. By the time I was 14 or 15 it was acceptable to have 1 beer, which was sipped, not chugged. When we got done with hunting, we'd get back in the car (rifles unloaded and in the trunk), and my dad had a small flask of wine, and we each had a healthy slug. He's gone, but the memories persist.

Same here. My parents let me try everything. My mom did the sloe gin, that was good! She also did Mogen-David - didn't like it then, don't like it now, too sweet. My dad let me try things to discourage me from drinking. It worked for the hard liquor but that POC beer was really good!

 

[jswordy]

Same here. My parents let me try everything. My mom did the sloe gin, that was good! She also did Mogen-David - didn't like it then, don't like it now, too sweet. My dad let me try things to discourage me from drinking. It worked for the hard liquor but that POC beer was really good!

LOL, I saw two girls get so drunk on smuggled sloe gin during a band trip, they both puked at the same time in the hotel room bathtub and it looked like an Alfred Hitchcock movie! I never touched the stuff – especially after that!

 

[cmason1957]

It's really more than an American Problem and certainly more than just Old People Problem. I stumbled across (ran just didn't seem to be right word) the included article. The French governement is going to give every winegrower in France 10,000 euros / hectare to cover the lower than expected saleability of their wine. The main driver in the sales slump seems to be in the years after World War II the average French adult drank 170 liters per year (17 cases per person, half a bottle per day). Today the average is 40 liters per year (or 4 1/2 cases per year). They are still producing wine for the 3 times amount people used to drink. I am going to guess that most folks on this site are closer to the old average than the new. I wonder what the number are like in America on average?

https://www.winespectator.com/articles/french-government-offers-aid-to-struggling-wine-grape-growers

 

[jswordy]

It's really more than an American Problem and certainly more than just Old People Problem. I stumbled across (ran just didn't seem to be right word) the included article. The French governement is going to give every winegrower in France 10,000 euros / hectare to cover the lower than expected saleability of their wine. The main driver in the sales slump seems to be in the years after World War II the average French adult drank 170 liters per year (17 cases per person, half a bottle per day). Today the average is 40 liters per year (or 4 1/2 cases per year). They are still producing wine for the 3 times amount people used to drink. I am going to guess that most folks on this site are closer to the old average than the new. I wonder what the number are like in America on average?

https://www.winespectator.com/articles/french-government-offers-aid-to-struggling-wine-grape-growers

Tongue firmly in cheek...

It's just too much work and not enough play! That's the trouble. France is in the throes of this as it adapts a more American "WHY IN HELL ARE YOU NOT WORKING RIGHT NOW!" attitude. My God, they are raising the full lifetime pensioned retirement age for each French citizen to 62! AN OUTRAGE! It is 60 now. How can people fit in 170 liters of wine a year when they are working so much?

Meanwhile, the epidemic of work that had its genesis in the USA appears to be worsening, as within a few years US politicians will surely be proposing another raise in Social Security eligibility to age 70 or beyond. The new age increase will lead to yet another drop in wine consumption, as old people will be working instead of drinking. An outrage!

I read that the average Native American worked 10 hours a week to sustain him or her. The rest was spent at leisure. And they didn't even have wine! How is this progress?

 

[Ty520]

That's a funny story from a group of people who have spent countless months chastising wine for being bad for the environment.

I think it depends on macro versus micro in respect to locale. My local VA is booming. In fact, there were so many new wineries and people rushing in, they've had to temporarily halt new licenses to try to figure out a way to deal with the crazy traffic and young "riff raff" partying every weekend. Something like 12 new applications a year.

That being said...

While at one of my local wineries a couple months ago, an old lady casually walked in to fulfill her monthly VIP wine club pickup which is $2K a year, then bought an additional case of their most expensive reserve wines on top of it, and 2 bottles of their most expensive bourbon without blinking an eye.

She contributed more in a day than an entire years worth of bachelorette parties full of "woo woo" College girls ever will.

Here, it costs a cool million to get off the ground with the most basic commercial winery imaginable. That's nothing compared to California or European numbers, but...

The clientele is what it is.

Wine isn't some social welfare entitlement