Oak in Secondary VS Primary

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small format oak , ie toasted chips and powders are used durring primary fermentation for a couple reasons.

due to large relative surface area , they are quick release so give up all their compounds in the fast time of a primary ferment,
they add some tannin , this rounds out the mouthfeel of the wine as the short chain seed tannins can bind into longer chains early reducing harshness.
they help fix colour compounds which can be full in the primary then fade as the wine ages . chips in the primary may be though of as a color stabilizer , helpfull with varieties like zinfandel which struggle to get nice colour , especialy with over cropped Central Valley fruit.

American oak chips and powders in the primary are the most effective way to reduce vegital character in underipe varieties of cabernet suav , cab franc and syrah. They also work very well with hybrid and native fruit , vegital character is minimised and fruit flavours shine.

chips and powders are intended for fermentation stage for these reasons and are not really intended as an aging stage oak addition. there are many compounds in the oak powder that are metabolised and buffered by the yeast in an active ferment . this is why oak in the primary doesn't add much oak flavour , NEWS FLASH its not supposed to . its the secondary benefits above you are shooting for.

this buffering of the oak results in good integration.

for a light red like pinot noir , 1g/litre is standard , for other reds like syrah or cab sauv , 2g/litre , for a hybrid red 4g/litre.

to get a good sence of this ( its harder to tell in a red wine , side by side batches , one control one with oak will highlight things ) also one might compare a chardonnay barrel fermented in a new barrel vs one simply stored in a new barrel.

one chardonnay is complex and smooth , the other , chateau plywood even if the time lapsed in a new barrel is the same ie 2 weeks .

for oak post fermentation , you want to use a larger format, slower release , less end grain character product , thats where cubes , spirals , staves and barrels come in. you are adding flavour and tannin at this stage.
 
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Thanks for the post, do you mind if I ask where you got this information so I do even more reading into it? It really frustrates me when I do not understand what is going on. I appreciate what you have contributed to this discussion as well as the other knowledgeable members on this forum.

So, I guess next time I make some grape wine I will experiment with adding a small addition of chips or oakpowder up front and then save the spirals for the actual aging process.
 
wines & vines has alot of information on oak adjuncts , they have a searchable database

winebussiness monthly has alot more on the use of them its been very well covered.

the rest is knowledge gained from years of winemaking and using the products.
 
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Stavin has some good info on their stite too.
Quote "
Why Add Toasted Oak at Crush?
1. Compounds developed during the toasting process aid in the initiation of anthocyanin stabilization from the start of fermentation.
2. Aromatic aldehyde compounds extracted from the toasted oak may aid in the stabilization of Co-pigment stacks (protective mechanism for monomeric anthocyanins).
3. These compounds appear to have sparing effect on acetaldehyde produced by yeast in exponential growth phase, enabling effect described above, #1, to be more effective.
4. The same reactive compounds described above also appear to react with polyphenolic material (tannins) from the grape enhancing mid-palette mouthfeel in wines.
5. Used in combination with macro aeration, certain “green/vegetal” characters in the must can be minimized."
 
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Why VS? We do both, oakmor in the primary to give it an oaky start then chips or staves or beans after the second racking. I would guess its good to have some additional tannins in at the start to bind up proteins etc, then if its not enough for your taste add some more later after the yeast has settled out following the first racking into the carboy.

WVMJ
 
Seth, something that I forgot to add about adding chips to the primary, it is the only time that I'll use chips: Using chips in the primary , the active yeast metabolizes and buffers the oak. much like a barrel ferment.
 
Why VS? We do both, oakmor in the primary to give it an oaky start then chips or staves or beans after the second racking. I would guess its good to have some additional tannins in at the start to bind up proteins etc, then if its not enough for your taste add some more later after the yeast has settled out following the first racking into the carboy.

WVMJ



Seth, something that I forgot to add about adding chips to the primary, it is the only time that I'll use chips: Using chips in the primary , the active yeast metabolizes and buffers the oak. much like a barrel ferment.


Thanks for the advice guys, I think I might buy some chips just for primary and try them out at around 1.5 ounces per 5 gallons. Might use a fairly neutral toast.. And then I well try reserving my staves for the secondary for the flavour additions. I guess to really figure this out I would need to do a side by side.
 
Thanks for the advice guys, I think I might buy some chips just for primary and try them out at around 1.5 ounces per 5 gallons. Might use a fairly neutral toast.. And then I well try reserving my staves for the secondary for the flavour additions. I guess to really figure this out I would need to do a side by side.

Hey Seth - join our Wine of the Month Club as an excuse to give a trial run ;)
 
I forgot to add oak during primary.

My plan was to start this WinExpert Chardonnay six gallon kit in my primary and then secondary as two three-gallon batches: one oaked for drinking and the other unoaked for cooking. However, I missed the kit instructions, stating the three oak packs were to be added to the primary fermentation.

I've read this thread, hoping to find the answer to my question, "Is it OK to oak during secondary ferment?" I see that yes, it is, but I may only pick up the oak flavors, but miss out on the potentially more important benefits of oaking on the front end.

Should I stick to my original plan or just do a single unoaked secondary fermentation and use it all as a more delicate cooking wine? If the latter, I'll end up with 27-29 bottles of cooking wine, which will potentially sit for quite some time before I burn through it. Will bypassing the oak reduce it's longevity?
 
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@FlavorSeeker: I think it depends on when you rack to secondary. Racking earlier (say, around 1.020) will still give you a fair amount of fermentation time on that oak. If you waited until 1.000 or less, maybe not so much.
 
I took a gravity reading this morning; primary has finished (.998). I'm racking to secondary today. Unless anyone highly-recommends otherwise, I plan to oak three gallons and leave the other three unoaked. I'm not a huge fan of Chardonnay, this batch is just to give me a stock of cooking wine, but I'm skeptical about keeping the better part of 30 bottles on hand, for fear that not palming it will lead to spoilage in the longer-sitting bottles. I guess, even with some spoilage, I'd still be ahead, compared to PA LCB Store pricing. I don't cook with a wine I wouldn't drink (like the "cooking wine" sold at the grocery store or the discount wines at the state store), but I hate paying $9-12 for a wine I'm expressly buying as an ingredient, knowing I can make it for 10-20% of that price.
 
Sauvignon Blanc is a more generic white wine for cooking. But, since you have made Chardonnay, you might as well use that.

I don't see that oaking will make that much difference for cooking use.

In any case, I'd oak in the secondary.
 
Yes; the guy at my LHBS recommended these two options and went with my known. Since then others recommended SB and I've started regretting my choice. Worst case, I'll be able to offer Chardonnay as an option, when we have guests.
 
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