Oaking ? and Bucket ?

[WVRoger]

I started this journey when I stumbled onto a video that promised an easy recipe for a wine from store bought juice that would be drinkable in two weeks. Wow, that beat the heck out of the three months I was waiting to drink my homebrew beer. So, I ran out and purchased one jug of Ocean Spray Cranberry juice and one of Cran-Rasberry, and some yeast from Amazon. I blended the juice about 3:1 to make a gallon, pitched the yeast and "set the timer" for two weeks. Then set out to edumacate myself a little. In nine months or so, I'll know if it worked. Two weeks- yeah, right.

Now three months later, with help from this group, I have that gallon batch plus two more bulk aging. The second is from Ocean Spray Cran-Pomegranate. The third is a Welch's White Grape and Cherry from a Jack Keller recipe. If I was still in college, I'd go ahead and drink them now. But, alas, I can wait. I bet my story is not that unique.

I am about to start yet another one gallon batch made from Coloma Merlot Concentrate. I intend to oak age using French toasted oak. Being new to this, I am looking for quidance in regards to how much oak, when to add it, and how long to expose the wine to it. I'm sure it's a matter of taste - but I need a starting point.

Secondly, I am running out of vessels. Can/should I do the primary fermentation of this one gallon batch in a two gallon fermentation bucket with an air lock? Then rack into a glass carboy. By the second racking, I should have a free carboy again. I guess I'm worried about the headspace in the bucket.

Sorry for the long winded build up to my questions. I appreciate any thoughts.

 

[winemaker81]

No need to apologize for a long intro -- a lot of questions are answered by questions, so you've shortcut that process.

Yeast needs O2 for reproduction, and it's a good idea to stir the must 1-4 times each day. Most of us ferment in open containers, covered with a towel, which works well and makes stirring easy. Fermenting wine under an airlock during the first 1/2 to 2/3 of the process is counter-productive. I use 5 to 8 US gallon food grade buckets for small batches, and 20 and 32 gallon Rubbermaid Brutes for large batches.

Regarding oak, there are two types -- fermentation and aging.

Fermentation oak is normally shreds or chips, and it preserves grape tannin (there are lots of types of tannin), preserves color, and improves body. From testing, I determined that it doesn't matter what variety of oak is used, so I use American as it's cheaper than French or Hungarian.

I make larger batches (180 lbs grapes), in which I use 3 to 4 cups of oak. For 1 gallon batches, try 1/2 cup.

Aging oak is added post-fermentation. I prefer cubes as it's more configurable (I can add as much as I want in small increments), but chips, staves, and spirals work just fine. This will alter the aroma and flavor, so the variety (American, French, Hungarian) matter. You can use any variety you want.

The amount used for aging is more critical. I use 1 to 1-1/2 oz per 5 US gallons, and leave the oak in for the duration, which for me is 6 to 12+ months. Some folks use a LOT more oak than I do, and it does depend on personal taste.

 

[WVRoger]

Thank you for the information. Is the daily stirring as important when using only juice as opposed to fruit/solids? As the fermentation get closer to completion should I replace the towel with the bucket lid and air lock?

Back to the oak. If I use cubes (added after the wine has cleared) and leave the wine on them until I bottle, how much oak debris/residue/funk is there to deal with. Will I need to remove the cubes from the carboy? Will I need to use a fining agent etc.?

 

[Ohio Bob]

Thank you for the information. Is the daily stirring as important when using only juice as opposed to fruit/solids? As the fermentation get closer to completion should I replace the towel with the bucket lid and air lock?

Back to the oak. If I use cubes (added after the wine has cleared) and leave the wine on them until I bottle, how much oak debris/residue/funk is there to deal with. Will I need to remove the cubes from the carboy? Will I need to use a fining agent etc.?

Daily stirring is beneficial no matter if it’s juice or fruit. It’s mandatory, IMO, for fruit or skins, as the dry cap will invite problems unless you punch it down. Stirring/punching also introduces oxygen which the yeast need.

When the SG gets to say 1.010, put on an airlock. This traps in the CO2 which helps protect the wine. Let it go another 1-4 weeks, then rack off the fruit/skins, add Kmeta, top off the carboy, and let it sit for 3 months.

As for oak, cubes are said to give up all they have in 3 months. So you can choose which 3 month window you want to add oak. It can be the 0-3 month window, 3-6 month, etc. at each racking you will start to get less and less sediment. Once you rack the oaked wine into a new carboy, then you can remove and discard the used cubes. Or use them in a smoker. Oak doesn’t create any sediment that wouldn’t be there from the fruit itself.

When you bottle, first rack the wine to a bucket or your vessel of choice. But do NOT bottle straight from a carboy that might have sediment. You will inevitably suck up sediment into your bottles. Also you need to add Kmeta to the wine before bottling, so it’s really impossible to do that without an intermediary racking. Racking also homogenizes the flavors. Oak flavoring can stratify in a carboy so racking helps mix it all up.

Fining agents are usually not needed unless...
1. You have a difficult haze that won’t go away with time. Usually everything clears with enough time.
2. You want to bottle for a special event and you can’t afford to wait. Usually everything clears with enough time. If you have the patience.

 

[WVRoger]

Wow! Ohio Bob and winemaker81, you guys are great! Thank you both!

 

[winemaker81]

As for oak, cubes are said to give up all they have in 3 months. So you can choose which 3 month window you want to add oak. It can be the 0-3 month window, 3-6 month, etc. at each racking you will start to get less and less sediment. Once you rack the oaked wine into a new carboy, then you can remove and discard the used cubes. Or use them in a smoker. Oak doesn’t create any sediment that wouldn’t be there from the fruit itself.

There is anecdotal evidence that leaving the oak in longer provides a "smoothing" effect, e.g., the harshness that oak may produce is muted and more pleasant. Several of us have noticed this enough to mention it, but I don't know of any formal study.

Which is a good experiment -- determine the number of cubes for a 23 liter batch, divide by 5, and do multiple 4 liter batches. Remove the oak from containers at the 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 month marks, respectively. Taste the wines at the last removal, then every month for a year.

I have a bag of used oak cubes that will go into the smoker next time we smoke something. If we have a dry weekend, baby back ribs sound very good!

 

[WVRoger]

Which is a good experiment -- determine the number of cubes for a 23 liter batch, divide by 5, and do multiple 4 liter batches. Remove the oak from containers at the 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 month marks, respectively. Taste the wines at the last removal, then every month for a year.

You guys let me know how that experiment works out. It made me think of a line from the song MacArthur Park. "...I don't think that I can take it. "Cause it took too long to bake it and I'll never have that recipe again. Oh no!..." Anecdotal evidence is good enough for me.

 

[user 32114]

www.colomafrozen.com
a decent place to get concentrates.

Dawg

 

[Hazelemere]

Thank you for the information. Is the daily stirring as important when using only juice as opposed to fruit/solids? As the fermentation get closer to completion should I replace the towel with the bucket lid and air lock?

Back to the oak. If I use cubes (added after the wine has cleared) and leave the wine on them until I bottle, how much oak debris/residue/funk is there to deal with. Will I need to remove the cubes from the carboy? Will I need to use a fining agent etc.?

cubes will sink to the bottom with no need for fining due to the oak. Oak tannin can settle wine protein.