Odor and mlf

[Matty_Kay]

Hey all, I started mlf last Saturday using VP 31on a pinot noir juice bucket when SG was .996, added the proper amount of opti-malo and all seemed fine. Had a normal ferment using Rockpile, racked to secondary around 1.002 SG and started mlf around .996 SG, no issues at all. I went to stir this evening and when I took the bung and airlock out of the carboy, it had a distinct odor, like a funky rotten egg-ish smell?.?.. I thiefed some wine out and tasted and had a similar taste. Does this wine have major issues or anything I can do while mlf is taking place? I also feel my sanitation practices are in order. Thanks.

 

[Turock]

Did you add nutrient to the juice bucket? You have a case of H2S,now, due to no nutrient or not enough nutrient. I have no experience in using Redulees on an active MLF. But when you use Redulees, you have to rack it back off it 48 hours, so you will lose the MLB. Now repitching the MLB should be no issue, but I'm not sure about repitching the MLB nutrient. So what I want you to do is call Scott Labs and discuss this with them--they are very good at helping home winemakers. Their number is 707-765-6666. It would be good if you report back to us on what they said as this will help everyone if they run into this issue in the future.

 

[Matty_Kay]

Yes, I used nutrient during fermentation (super ferment) and opti-malo to kick off mlf. I will call Scott Labs and report back. Thanks.

 

[Matty_Kay]

So I talked to Scott Labs and they recommended stirring once a day to keep the MLB in full suspension. Then, once mlf has completed and if there still is an odor, then treat with Redulees. Not sure if this is the best advice to follow? Any thoughts?

 

[deRicardo]

Going to Scott Labs is going to the experts.

I am surprised you have an H2S problem since you did provide nutrients. However, anything and everything that stresses the yeast or the MLF bacteria can result in H2S. Consider things that can cause such stress and you might find a reason. Not being in the right temperature range can be an issue as well.

One thing that helps with H2s is racking the wine. It allows the smell to blow off and adds some oxygen. H2s can blow off some during MLF, because MLF produces some CO2 which can carry off the smell. I would be surprised if it gets rid of it completely. If I were you, I'd follow Scott Lab's advice and also go ahead and order some Reduless, you'll likely need it. I can tell you from experience that you can still end up with a good wine in spite of the H2s. It can be completely curable, so don't give up on the batch.

 

[Matty_Kay]

I plan on following Scott Labs advice. To be honest, after stirring last night and this evening, the odor is noticeably weaker, which is encouraging. I do.plan.on ordering some Redulees to have on hand once MLF is complete in case the H2S is still present. My only concern was exposing the wine to excess stirring, albeit gently, to O2 without protection. We shall see but I'm hopeful all will turn out just fine based on the advice given.

 

[deRicardo]

MK,

The whole idea of being so careful about O2 exposure is of course important and necessary, but wine is a lot more forgiving than you might think, especially reds.

When I suspect H2S, I use pennies to determine if the smell is actually from H2S. Pennies are not actually made of copper but are copper coated enough that if a small cup of wine is swirled for 4 or 5 minutes with 3 or 4 shinny pennies in it, the rotten egg smell will diminish considerably. (It's the copper in the pennies that causes the reduction in the smell.) If the smell doesn't diminish, it is likely nothing more than the smell some wines naturally give off during fermentation.

 

[Matty_Kay]

Thanks for the insight deRicardo, I'm always learning something new on this forum which is awesome.

 

[Turock]

I'm glad you called them. It's interesting that you can just proceed with the MLF and THEN deal with the H2S issue.

Even if you CAN'T detect the H2S by odor once the MLF is complete, I would STILL dose it with Redulees because SOME H2S issues are very faint and can't be detected by odor. BUT--- it is still present and can cause a fault in the wine later on. So do what Scott Labs suggested to you.

 

[Matty_Kay]

I was surprised by their response, from everything I was reading it seemed H2S is a problem that if not dealt with immediately, could ruin the wine. Being still new to this hobby, anything out of the "norm" always makes me panic a bit. But, I will do what they said and just see what happens I guess.

 

[Matty_Kay]

Quick update- Mlf finished up and I added Redulees on Thursday evening, waited 72 hrs and racked last night. The Redulees seemed to mostly clear up the odor completely but there is still a faint sulfur smell present. Is there anything else I can do to get rid of the odor completely?

 

[Matty_Kay]

I have read that ascorbic acid and another dose of Redulees may clear up this H2S odor completely. Has anyone used ascorbic acid and Redulees to clear up an H2S odor and if so, in what dosage, time frame of ascorbic acid prior to addition of Redulees etc. Thanks!

 

[olusteebus]

What about running the wine through a copper tube?

 

[Matty_Kay]

I thought about that, just wasn't sure if there were any necessary precautions to take. Also, I was trying to take the simplest approach possible- add the appropriate acid amount, wait a yet to be determined amount of time based on others expertise, add Redulees, wait and then rack. Trying to minimize any potential hazards due to my my inexperience. At least that's the thought as of now.

 

[cintipam]

Matty, don't run thru the copper. I was in a situation like yours once and ran thru copper, then did the vit c treatment followed by another run thu copper. while it did clear up the smell, smart folks on this board advised me how dangerous it was to get that uncontrolled amnt of copper in the wine. Well, I had already drunk quite a bit of the wine by that time. So I did research on too much copper and found I did have some symptoms after drinking the wine. Nothing serious like permanent damage to kidneys and liver, but I am convinced my unexplained diarrhea was a result of the wine. It wasn't debilitating or anything but bad enough that I compared notes with hubby since we had eaten the same food. He had no problems but then he drinks beer not wine. Anyway looking back I know that was the problem. My yearly physical showed no problem with bloodwork so I got off easy.

If you still want to know the treatment is 1/2 tsp vitC powder per gallon stirred in very very well, wait 36 hours then do another redulees treatment. Apparently the Vit C unbinds mercaptans and turns them back into something the redulees can treat. The vit c will lower your PH so know that before you start.

Pam in cinti

 

[Matty_Kay]

Thanks Pam for sharing your experience and the advice- much appreciated.

 

[cintipam]

It wasn't an easy post to make, but I didn't want anyone else to be at risk.

I was saved by 2 things. I didn't care much for the wine even after all smell was gone. It was apple, and I blended it half and half with some cranberry I had around. Also, my readings said the best way to flush toxins from liver and kidney is water with lemon juice in it. Well, that is my preferred beverage and I have lots of it every day.

You could probably use less vit c per gallon and it would still work. I needed an acid boost, and the instructions I found said to wait 24 hrs. Just wanted to give you some parameters to work with. Redulees is safe, but I would not run thru copper a couple times. Once might have been ok, but not multiple times. I know I won't do it ever again.

Pam in cinti

 

[Matty_Kay]

Added a second dose of Redulees last week to a stinky Pinot Noir and racked over the weekend. The smell is GONE! Quite happy that it appears the second dose did the trick. Great product.