ok..little help..

[kendo]

I am new to the cultured yeast thing, i was a wild yeast natural wine man, im going with a cultured yeast, ive read 20 diff ways to rehydrate a yeast..so here's i go...im doing 4 lugs of grapes >1 cup of 104 degree water , put in 12 1/2 grams of go ferm protect, 10 grams of yeast (d254) wait 15-20 add a little juice from fermenter, wait 15 more minutes, add the culture to the fermenter..

 

[Brew and Wine Supply]

You can also add some sugar or juice to the 104* water also as a kicker. Everything looks good.

 

[kendo]

wow!!! thats good news!!!..

 

[robie]

Make sure the yeast solution is within a few degrees temperature-wise as the must before adding it to the must.

Also make sure the solution is foaming and bubbling, indicating the yeast are viable.

 

[kendo]

thks robie will do...

 

[MalvinaScordaad]

I am new to the cultured yeast thing, i was a wild yeast natural wine man, im going with a cultured yeast, ive read 20 diff ways to rehydrate a yeast..so here's i go...im doing 4 lugs of grapes >1 cup of 104 degree water , put in 12 1/2 grams of go ferm protect, 10 grams of yeast (d254) wait 15-20 add a little juice from fermenter, wait 15 more minutes, add the culture to the fermenter..

To use GO Ferm correctly you hydrate it at 110 degrees and wait for the solution to drop to 104 degrees then you add the yeast. Then you make additions to the culture with some sugar and juice but do not let the culture drop more than 10 degrees doing so in stages of at least one hour each. After you have dropped the Culture temperature to within 10 degrees of your Fermenter Temperature you can pitch the culture in the Fermentor. Keeping the temperature changes within the 10 degree range is called tempering. I assume as a Natural Yeast Guy now that you have decided to use cultured yeasts you now have your nutrient program ready as well.
Malvina

 

[tonyandkory]

To use GO Ferm correctly you hydrate it at 110 degrees and wait for the solution to drop to 104 degrees then you add the yeast. Then you make additions to the culture with some sugar and juice but do not let the culture drop more than 10 degrees doing so in stages of at least one hour each. After you have dropped the Culture temperature to within 10 degrees of your Fermenter Temperature you can pitch the culture in the Fermentor. Keeping the temperature changes within the 10 degree range is called tempering. I assume as a Natural Yeast Guy now that you have decided to use cultured yeasts you now have your nutrient program ready as well.
Malvina

WOW that seems like a lot of work... when (if) I make a starter ... usually hot water in a cup then put the yeast in until it all sinks to the bottom stir in a couple spoon full of sugar and walk away for awhile until the cup is full of foam then pitch it ....

is there an advantage to doing that? ... I have never had a ferment not start.

(**knocks on something wooded**)

 

[kendo]

To use GO Ferm correctly you hydrate it at 110 degrees and wait for the solution to drop to 104 degrees then you add the yeast. Then you make additions to the culture with some sugar and juice but do not let the culture drop more than 10 degrees doing so in stages of at least one hour each. After you have dropped the Culture temperature to within 10 degrees of your Fermenter Temperature you can pitch the culture in the Fermentor. Keeping the temperature changes within the 10 degree range is called tempering. I assume as a Natural Yeast Guy now that you have decided to use cultured yeasts you now have your nutrient program ready as well.
Malvina

wow how in hell do i keep the water from droping 10 degrees for an hour?..and what do you mean nutrient program ready?..help please

 

[MalvinaScordaad]

WOW that seems like a lot of work... when (if) I make a starter ... usually hot water in a cup then put the yeast in until it all sinks to the bottom stir in a couple spoon full of sugar and walk away for awhile until the cup is full of foam then pitch it ....

is there an advantage to doing that? ... I have never had a ferment not start.

(**knocks on something wooded**)

There are many ways of doing things. Some ways work sometimes, Some work most of the times and there are ways that work all of the time. Also some ways require more work than others. If there was no reason for doing more work than it would be silly to do. However there are many reasons to follow a strict yeast hydration and culture building method. The most important is not the having the ferment not start. The opposite is the case. It is having a ferment finish properly. Go Ferm and Tempering simply put allows for the development of strong and healthy cell walls of the developing yeast colony. This leads to cells that can withstand better the increasing alcohol environment. You can imagine how important that is when dealing with high brix musts. There are other reasons why correct hydration and tempering will make for a safer fermentation and reduce potential issues including off odors and tastes, VA production and H2S issues. All smart reasons for the extra work.

How do you keep the water from dropping 10 degrees for an hour? Your container is kept in a warm bath and/or you have a bigger container in which it will take an hour for it to lose 10 degrees.

Well you don't just pick a yeast type and expect a miracle. The differences in the sensory effects yeast will have on a grape are small compared to not providing yeasts with proper nutrients during the fermentation. You need to read up on using yeast nutrients. I assumed you knew as much since you indicated you were using Go Ferm Protect. Consider using Fermaid K at the very least.
Malvina

 

[kendo]

this is my first cultured yeast malvina, ive been reading and reading , im trying just to get a hydrated yeast for a good ferment thats all, i dont know alot about this thats why im asking so many ??"s, im learning something new everyday, and i really apprc your post along with the others on this board, i just want to get this right the first time thats all, i have all the yeast and nutrients i need, go ferm pertect, fermaid k, opti red, im a little slow on the learning curve with what im suppose to do ..i mean im doing 4lugs of zin in each tub , all i need to know is how many grams of yeast and how many grams of go ferm to hydrate for this amount of grapes i need for each tub , and when to feed again when ferment starts, could you help me with that??, is it 10 grams of yeast and say 12 1/2 grams of go ferm...im using d254 yeast for this..

 

[Runningwolf]

I also use Go Ferm and agree with everything Melvina mentioned, especially about reducing potential issues including off odors and tastes, VA production and H2S issues. The only thing I do different is 15 minute intervals instead of one hour. Many times I am starting out making a 5 gallon starter batch and I'm just adding juice with each increment instead of juice and sugar.

When I'm making a batch at home I do actually set my small starter batch in a sink of warm water as mentioned above to keep it from cooling too fast.

 

[kendo]

can you tell me if my gram #s are correct .like 10grams of yeast and 12 1/2 grams of go ferm for 4lugs of grapes..thk you

 

[MalvinaScordaad]

this is my first cultured yeast malvina, ive been reading and reading , im trying just to get a hydrated yeast for a good ferment thats all, i dont know alot about this thats why im asking so many ??"s, im learning something new everyday, and i really apprc your post along with the others on this board, i just want to get this right the first time thats all, i have all the yeast and nutrients i need, go ferm pertect, fermaid k, opti red, im a little slow on the learning curve with what im suppose to do ..i mean im doing 4lugs of zin in each tub , all i need to know is how many grams of yeast and how many grams of go ferm to hydrate for this amount of grapes i need for each tub , and when to feed again when ferment starts, could you help me with that??, is it 10 grams of yeast and say 12 1/2 grams of go ferm...im using d254 yeast for this..

Ok 4 lugs per vat assume 10 gallons per vat finished wine.


For each Vat the following
10 grams of Yeast
Fermaid K 1/2 dose after the lag phase 5 GRAMS (6.1gms/teaspoon)
Fermaid K 1/2 addition dose at 18 brix. 5 GRAMS "
Opti Red full dose at pitching yeast 10 GRAMS (3grs teaspoon)
Malvina

 

[Rock]

Don't forget 1.25 grams of go ferm per gram of yeast.Man Malvina your like a book of knowledge Thank you.

 

[kendo]

Ok 4 lugs per vat assume 10 gallons per vat finished wine.


For each Vat the following
10 grams of Yeast
Fermaid K 1/2 dose after the lag phase 5 GRAMS (6.1gms/teaspoon)
Fermaid K 1/2 addition dose at 18 brix. 5 GRAMS "
Opti Red full dose at pitching yeast 10 GRAMS (3grs teaspoon)
Malvina

wow....thk you so much, i get it now..and 12 1/2 grams of go ferm correct? your going to kill me but when is the lag phase? i understand everything else..thk thk you...

 

[MalvinaScordaad]

Oh I assumed the 12.5 grams of Go Ferm. for each vat. Right you are Rock! Lag Phase is the time when you pitch the yeast and the beginning of the cap forms. So when you start to get a cap on the must then you can consider the lag phase at its end. I also consider lag phase included in my total of time cold soak. Not sure if everyone else does but to me it is cold soaking until you have a cap. One other thing it is not a bad idea to increase Yeast and Go-Ferm by 20% in high brix musts or if you are using last year's yeast. ( if stored properly)
Malvina

 

[JohnT]

Not to be a "nay sayer", but IMHO, a starter is not really needed.

For 22 years, I simply sprinkle the dry yeast over the curshed must. I have never has a problem with fermentation kicking off. Of course, I use quality yeast (which may have something to do with it).

 

[kendo]

thanks for all the post malvina, it has been a great great help!!!, one last ??, before i pitch the yeast how much meta bisulfite should i use on each bin to stun the wild yeast 4lugs in each..thk you..

 

[altavino]

I don't usually make a starter for a must within normal parameters , I just use goferm durring hydration and pitch the hydrated yeast.

But I would make a starter for a must that was likely to be difficult , like a high sugar port or dessert wine must or a big monster zinfandel or a high acid low ph hybrid , or one that was over sulfited at crush .

I'd also make a starter if I was caught out with less yeast than I needed and culture it overnight to build it up. A freind of mine showed up a couple years ago with 2 tonnes of grapes after we had already finnished our ferments for the season. I was a little short of yeast and it was the October thanksgiving week end and I couldn't get any yeast for this surprise batch. this starter worked well.

a starter is also a good idea if your fermenting room is a little on the cool side. build up a good starter for a few hours where its warm. bring it into your fermenting room, let it cool down for a hour in the room , then pitch it . this will help your ferment get off to a faster start.

http://www.lallemandwine.com/IMG/pdf_Fiche_1IntALP.qxd.pdf

I also follow lallamnds reccomendation of using 25% more yeast with musts over 25 Brix.


I do however always make mlf starters , even when using MBR strains.

 

[Rock]

thanks for all the post malvina, it has been a great great help!!!, one last ??, before i pitch the yeast how much meta bisulfite should i use on each bin to stun the wild yeast 4lugs in each..thk you..

1/2 tsp per 100lbs should do the trick.