Old plastic carboys

[raelynn]

A couple months ago, my uncle mentioned he had my grandmother's old winemaking stuff in his garage and offered it to us. He dropped it off yesterday and these are the carboys he gave us. I have never seen this kind of plastic carboys before. You can see they are far from clean, but since they are plastic, I am not sure they can be fully cleaned/sanitized. Are these worth cleaning up and keeping? We have quite a few glass ones, and even in every day life I prefer to use glass over plastic, but thought I'd ask the experts.

 

[Rocky]

A couple months ago, my uncle mentioned he had my grandmother's old winemaking stuff in his garage and offered it to us. He dropped it off yesterday and these are the carboys he gave us. I have never seen this kind of plastic carboys before. You can see they are far from clean, but since they are plastic, I am not sure they can be fully cleaned/sanitized. Are these worth cleaning up and keeping? We have quite a few glass ones, and even in every day life I prefer to use glass over plastic, but thought I'd ask the experts.

View attachment 100351

If it were I, I would not use them. I don't like that they are opaque and you cannot get an accurate reading on what is inside and plastic is porous, with the ability to hide organisms that could spoil your wine. It does not appear that you need them.

 

[NorCal]

They look like thick HDPE, which is what flextanks and speidels are made of. I agree with @Rocky that if the containers are porous the potential exists to harbor spoilage bacteria. If they are slick on the inside, you can confirm they are HDPE, a good brushing and soaking with PBW and I’d put them in service.

 

[Rocky]

@raelynn, NorCal makes a good point. See if there is a numeral 2 inside a triangle on the bottom of the carboys indicating HDPE. If so, give them a good cleaning with PBW Cleaner. I might even do it twice (belt and suspenders!) Before adding any wine to the carboys, hit them with a K-meta solution. This will reduce the risk of using them but it will not be zero. (Then again, nothing is.)

The symbol will look something like this:

 

[Rice_Guy]

Based on color I also would guess HDPE. HDPE is not porous to water and alcohol. HDPE will transmit about as much oxygen as an oak barrel, ie more than PET or glass but normal for some styles. ,,, Do you make wines which are reductive or slightly oxidized? ,,, Food plants use a lot of HDPE containers, so if you have eaten anything out of the grocery store you have eaten out of containers which were washed then reused. Yes plastic can scratch, no it isn’t a lot of issue since cleaners will remove serious microbial problems. Remember wine is a preservative, scratches aren’t a major concern. ,,, A plastic could absorb odors so my first look would be to smell each of them and see if anything was picked up or if there is evidence of non-food grade storage. Final issue is that old plastic can crack, ,,, is there any evidence that the carboys have been stored in direct sun?

 

[raelynn]

They look like thick HDPE, which is what flextanks and speidels are made of. I agree with @Rocky that if the containers are porous the potential exists to harbor spoilage bacteria. If they are slick on the inside, you can confirm they are HDPE, a good brushing and soaking with PBW and I’d put them in service.

Two of them are smooth inside and two feel textured inside.

@raelynn, NorCal makes a good point. See if there is a numeral 2 inside a triangle on the bottom of the carboys indicating HDPE. If so, give them a good cleaning with PBW Cleaner. I might even do it twice (belt and suspenders!) Before adding any wine to the carboys, hit them with a K-meta solution. This will reduce the risk of using them but it will not be zero. (Then again, nothing is.)

The symbol will look something like this:

View attachment 100355

There is nothing printed on the bottom of any of them

Based on color I also would guess HDPE. HDPE is not porous to water and alcohol. HDPE will transmit about as much oxygen as an oak barrel, ie more than PET or glass but normal for some styles. ,,, Do you make wines which are reductive or slightly oxidized? ,,, Food plants use a lot of HDPE containers, so if you have eaten anything out of the grocery store you have eaten out of containers which were washed then reused. Yes plastic can scratch, no it isn’t a lot of issue since cleaners will remove serious microbial problems. Remember wine is a preservative, scratches aren’t a major concern. ,,, A plastic could absorb odors so my first look would be to smell each of them and see if anything was picked up or if there is evidence of non-food grade storage. Final issue is that old plastic can crack, ,,, is there any evidence that the carboys have been stored in direct sun?

I don't think they've been in the sun, but they were in my uncle's garage for 20 years, so they've potentially seen temperature shifts from -35C to +35C. I also realized as I was examing them that they reek of cigarette smoke. My aunt smokes and I wonder if she smokes in the garage. I am definitely not going to use these for winemaking, but was thinking I could cut the entire top part off and use it as a planter for container gardening. At least then I could clean the inside. But I need to figure out if the plastic is safe to grow food in (because it would be in direct sun for sure).


Thank you for your help and opinions, I appreciate it. My husband will also be glad that I don't plan to use these for wine making.

 

[NorCal]

I agree with your decision. There is a lot of personal investment of time, thought, $ in making a batch of wine and it’s not worth having it go bad on taking a chance on an unknown.

 

[Hazelemere]

A couple months ago, my uncle mentioned he had my grandmother's old winemaking stuff in his garage and offered it to us. He dropped it off yesterday and these are the carboys he gave us. I have never seen this kind of plastic carboys before. You can see they are far from clean, but since they are plastic, I am not sure they can be fully cleaned/sanitized. Are these worth cleaning up and keeping? We have quite a few glass ones, and even in every day life I prefer to use glass over plastic, but thought I'd ask the experts.

View attachment 100351

clean them with bleach and water. They are useful for primary white wine juice fermentations since they are unbreakable but need large bungs. I use them all the time. Also good for pressed fermentations either red wine grapes or pressed fruit. Switch to glass after 30-60 days.

 

[Shurt1073]

Cool find with a cool story.

 

[oenophilosopher]

Those are high quality, semi-breathable polypropylene carboys, likely LDPE or HDPE. Looks like some of the first run by Diamond. I’ve used some of the 60 gallon drums for rack/returns or topping wine storage. They’re great, the O2 transfer is not as much as oak, but does allow some ethanol or oxygen transfer depending on the external humidity/temp.
Those however look like a challenge to clean due to the small mouth. But they could be worth it, though glass is my preference, but also doesn’t allow breath-ability. I’d soak them for a day in warm water and proxy carb, then give as good a scrub as you can with a jug brush. Rinse with water, then neutralize with citric acid water and let it soak for about the same amount of time as the proxy carb. Rinse again, and smell them.
*Do not use bleach.. don’t even keep any chlorine around your winery/cellar lest you infect your finished wine with trichloranisole.

 

[Hazelemere]

Those are high quality, semi-breathable polypropylene carboys, likely LDPE or HDPE. Looks like some of the first run by Diamond. I’ve used some of the 60 gallon drums for rack/returns or topping wine storage. They’re great, the O2 transfer is not as much as oak, but does allow some ethanol or oxygen transfer depending on the external humidity/temp.
Those however look like a challenge to clean due to the small mouth. But they could be worth it, though glass is my preference, but also doesn’t allow breath-ability. I’d soak them for a day in warm water and proxy carb, then give as good a scrub as you can with a jug brush. Rinse with water, then neutralize with citric acid water and let it soak for about the same amount of time as the proxy carb. Rinse again, and smell them.
*Do not use bleach.. don’t even keep any chlorine around your winery/cellar lest you infect your finished wine with trichloranisole.

trichloranisole doesn't exist in plastic. Bleach and water on polyethylene or polypropylene is fine. I have have been using diluted bleach e.g. 1/4 cup for 5 gallon cleaning for almost 55 years without ever having had a problem. By the way I am also a professional chemist and understand what bleach will or won't do.

 

[Hazelemere]

trichloranisole formation cannot occur if your plastic carboys are properly rinsed with water. I checked oenophilosophe comment. What he he/she says is valid if you left bleach residual in a carboy. If you rinse your carboys properly after cleaning with bleach i.e. no bleach smell at all then trichloranisole will never be a problem for you which it has never been for me. I clean all my carboys with bleach glass and plastic.