seth8530
The Atomic Wine Maker
Fermentation is down to 1.080. I am gong to go ahead and add 88 more grams of fermaid O.
OMG It Is Happening Again!!
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Seth,
I have been meaning to ask you if you have ever given forced carbonation a try.
I started out doing only natural carbonation, but hated the disgorging process and also found that (when aged in a Corney Keg) it was impossible to get all of the spent yeast out and the slightest shake would cause the whole batch to get cloudy for a number of weeks.
Once I tried forced carbonation..
1) Aged my base wine for a year or two,
2) filtered it,
3) Transferred 4 gallons to a 5 gallon corney keg
4) sealed and purged keg with CO2,
5) Pumped CO2 up to 30 psi
6) placed in my beer keg-a-rator for 3 weeks at 34F
The results were fantastic! No disgorging and perfectly clear right down to the last drop!
I have been meaning to ask you if you have ever given forced carbonation a try.
I started out doing only natural carbonation, but hated the disgorging process and also found that (when aged in a Corney Keg) it was impossible to get all of the spent yeast out and the slightest shake would cause the whole batch to get cloudy for a number of weeks.
Once I tried forced carbonation..
1) Aged my base wine for a year or two,
2) filtered it,
3) Transferred 4 gallons to a 5 gallon corney keg
4) sealed and purged keg with CO2,
5) Pumped CO2 up to 30 psi
6) placed in my beer keg-a-rator for 3 weeks at 34F
The results were fantastic! No disgorging and perfectly clear right down to the last drop!
Boatboy24
No longer a newbie, but still clueless.
JohnT: did you serve from the corny keg, or bottle?
Just out of curiosity, how did effervescence in your forcefully carbonated wine turn out to show? Was it more like in soda drinks or tiny bubbles beading as in commercial sparkling wines? In one of the books I read that while it is possible to go both ways, that is classical disgorging or forced carbonation, the "native" CO2 tends to come out as a string of tiny bubbles, whereas the latter comes our in the form of larger bubbles popping up randomly across the surface of the wine in the glass. I wonder, how does your personal experience speak to this theory? Thanks.
seth8530
The Atomic Wine Maker
I know people who force carb beer, but I feel like I will stick with the traditional or at least semi-traditional path for now. One of the reasons is that I really like serving from bottles, they are much easier to transport and in the past I have not had good luck going from a beer gun to a bottle before when transferring beer from a keg to bottle.
Another reason is that I want to give the process a try, so I might end up regretting all the work and pain it puts me through later... But, I think it is worth the experience.
On the topic of bubbles, from what I have read the nature of the bubbles has a lot to do with the proteins left in or out of the wine.
I guess that means no bentonite treatment for sparkling wines then.
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seth8530
The Atomic Wine Maker
I would say not necessarily.
Might want to reconsider the force carb. If your initial brix was ~24, you might be getting 14-15% alcohol which is typically to high for a traditional methode champenoise. The references that I've been reading suggest ~17 brix is the preferred starting point.
Cheers!
seth8530
The Atomic Wine Maker
Yeah, I saw that. I might try and bottle carb a test bottle before I do the whole batch. If the one bottle will not bottle carb I will likely just keep it all still.
seth8530
The Atomic Wine Maker
I am not sure, I have not read enough yet, so I am not sure if high protein counts or lower counts or perhaps a certain sweet spot are more conducive to a middle ground.
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I do not really know the science of it, but I have always been told that AGE has more to do with the bubble size and the duration of carbonation. Most of the champagne houses I have visited have typically aged their champagne for 18 months after the bottles were capped for just this very reason.
Boatboy: I serve right through my keg-o-rator. Champagne on tap! Quite a novelty and folks seem to really get a kick out of it. It also helps that the champagne tastes pretty good (IMHO).
Acorn: The carbonation lasts a good long time. This has mostly to do with the fact that I chill it down to 34 degrees and keep it there. This allows the CO2 to go into solution (form carbonic acid). The carbonation is much like a soda at first, then settles down nicely. This is much like most other champagnes...
Update: Just to clarify: The champagne is ready to drink in about 3 weeks, but I like to age it further for 3 months.
Boatboy: I serve right through my keg-o-rator. Champagne on tap! Quite a novelty and folks seem to really get a kick out of it. It also helps that the champagne tastes pretty good (IMHO).
Acorn: The carbonation lasts a good long time. This has mostly to do with the fact that I chill it down to 34 degrees and keep it there. This allows the CO2 to go into solution (form carbonic acid). The carbonation is much like a soda at first, then settles down nicely. This is much like most other champagnes...
Update: Just to clarify: The champagne is ready to drink in about 3 weeks, but I like to age it further for 3 months.
seth8530
The Atomic Wine Maker
So, I went and racked the wine into a 6 and 2 5 gallon carboys. As suspected I came up a little bit short, so I am going to have to get some wine to top off from the store when I get a chance. The gravity read 1.012 when I racked and I noticed quite a bit of really gritty sediment in the bottom which makes me suspect that some acid might have dropped out due to the cold ferment. However, all in all it smells really clean and under the young smell has quite a nice fruity aroma to it. I also added the last of the yeast derived nutrient ( optiwhite) into the aging carboys.
If I recall correctly, you were aiming to get the acid to the 11 g/L level, which seems quite high. I am wondering, did you add all of it by now, or do you still plan to add more? Is the temperature in the room so low that you suspect acid crysals to have precipitated so eagerly at this early stage?
seth8530
The Atomic Wine Maker
Acid levels that high are not way out of the question for sparkling wines. But, I am fermenting in a deepfreezer with a temperature control unit in the must at 55F. So, if something dropped out I am not surprised. I will need to double check the TA now that fermentation is done. I added the acid prior to the ferment, so I might have to add more now that fermentation is done... But, if I do I will wait a month or two before I do that to get a good idea of how it taste.
seth8530
The Atomic Wine Maker
Nothing new in this post.
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seth8530
The Atomic Wine Maker
In an effort to stave of clearing issues I had with last years Chardonnay I am going to treat with around 15-16 grams of bentonite per 5-6 gallon carboy of our lovely bubbely blend.
Hey Seth,
Random question time:
How do you transfer your wine from the huge 20 gallon "bucket" (cmon, we all know it's a garbage can
)?
Do you use a pump or are you incredibly strong
?
I plan on making a huge 30-40 gallon batch from real grapes next harvest and I am having trouble figuring out how to transfer efficiently (I used a pail in the past).
Random question time:
How do you transfer your wine from the huge 20 gallon "bucket" (cmon, we all know it's a garbage can
)?Do you use a pump or are you incredibly strong
?I plan on making a huge 30-40 gallon batch from real grapes next harvest and I am having trouble figuring out how to transfer efficiently (I used a pail in the past).
seth8530
The Atomic Wine Maker
With my setup their is no good option other than using a pump to move wine from my deep freezer. ( Try picking up 15 gallons of wine from a bucket that has been wedged into a too small of a chiller). So for batches of the size you have in mind, you will need a pump.
I would buy a food grade pump and prefilter. And perhaps rig up some kind of simple device to allow you pump off of skins without sucking them in.. Ie ,racking cane inside of pvc pipe with holes drilled in it.
I would buy a food grade pump and prefilter. And perhaps rig up some kind of simple device to allow you pump off of skins without sucking them in.. Ie ,racking cane inside of pvc pipe with holes drilled in it.
seth8530
The Atomic Wine Maker
I went and added the bentonite. I also checked the SO2 and found it to be somewhere between 19-23 ppm. Since I will not be checking or doing anything to this guy for a long time I decided to go ahead and add 50 ppm sulfite to it.
