Operation Massa Family Red - Muscat-Alicante-Zinfandel

[Mac60]

Same thoughts I’m having this year, going for longer skin contact time. Today is 8 days since crush, it’ll be 10 days by the time of pressing, good bit longer than usual. I usually press earlier while there’s a good cap, it makes pumping off of the free run easier when the skins are on top, and wine on the bottom, but it’ll work out just fine.

This season I went 9 days from the crush, it went dry on day 7, SG was .99 first time I went below 1.00 at press. This was one really perfect fermentation from the start, great grapes, all good numbers.
Keeping a strict regime with intro of additives, I feel made a major difference.
This is fist year I used Lallyzyme, Opti-Red, hydrated with Goferm and Ferm-K.
However I just could not get myself to co inoculate with MLB. I did have some temp spikes in the 90- 94F, I cooled it down back to 85 after about 8-10 hours. My biggest concern for co-inoculating mlb was temp control, I have always had temps reach 90 for brief periods and did not want to chance it.
Maybe next year, I was thinking of creating a cooling system using ice packs inserted into a pouch around the out side of my plastic tanks. This is what I used for a brief period and it did bring the temp down to 85 from 92 after about 8 hours.

 

[Donz]

Co-inoculation is all that I have ever done with the workhorse VP41. I love the fact that MLF is done quickly. Took 10 days this year.

 

[Mac60]

Co-inoculation is all that I have ever done with the workhorse VP41. I love the fact that MLF is done quickly. Took 10 days this year.

What kind of temps did you hit during fermentation? I have only used CH16 Chris Hansen, its always finished but has taken up 3 months and that's a long time without S02
Mike

 

[Donz]

85 ish farenheight.

 

[CK55]

85 ish farenheight.

thats pretty warm

 

[Donz]

Inside the fermentation tank that is. Perfectly normal. 72F in the room.

 

[CK55]

Inside the fermentation tank that is. Perfectly normal. 72F in the room.

Whew i was going to say that if that was your total temp then you would be pushing it.

You had me having a heart attack for a moment.

 

[Donz]

Lol no I’m in Canada here. No need to worry about things being to warm!

 

[CK55]

Lol no I’m in Canada here. No need to worry about things being to warm!

Lol, yeah well thank you for not giving me a heart attack haha.

My average temp in my house is usually 64-73F so I get rather cool fermentations. Which is a plus, it preserves the delicate floral and fruity notes in wine.

 

[Johnd]

This season I went 9 days from the crush, it went dry on day 7, SG was .99 first time I went below 1.00 at press. This was one really perfect fermentation from the start, great grapes, all good numbers.
Keeping a strict regime with intro of additives, I feel made a major difference.
This is fist year I used Lallyzyme, Opti-Red, hydrated with Goferm and Ferm-K.
However I just could not get myself to co inoculate with MLB. I did have some temp spikes in the 90- 94F, I cooled it down back to 85 after about 8-10 hours. My biggest concern for co-inoculating mlb was temp control, I have always had temps reach 90 for brief periods and did not want to chance it.
Maybe next year, I was thinking of creating a cooling system using ice packs inserted into a pouch around the out side of my plastic tanks. This is what I used for a brief View attachment 51841 View attachment 51842 View attachment 51843 period and it did bring the temp down to 85 from 92 after about 8 hours.

I’ve had temp spikes into the 90’s with mlb on board, still was finished a couple or three weeks post press. It gives me solace to get my wine sulfited quickly and into the temp controlled wine room in a barrel. Hope you’ll give it a shot one day, I’ll never go back......

 

[Johnd]

And I always just mix free run and press. I have a ratchet press and know I can't press hard enough to cause any effect on those seeds. It's all good. I am really missing making any grape wines this fall. grumble, grumble. But my wife is right, we got so dang much now we could go a long while without making some. I do plan to start a bourbon barrel kit I convinced her we needed and that will be another let them soak in the fridge for a week or two before I pitch yeast. The 12 gallons of Amarone I did that to are tasting really nice, 6 more months of carboy and into the bottle for about 2 years.

I mostly end up mixing the press and free run, last year was an exception, as I produced 50+ gallons for the 30 gallon barrel. Kept em separate and used my fleet of neutral 6 gallon Vadai barrels.

 

[Ajmassa]

Well without those big ass volumes the press run doesn’t end up being enough to keep separate. Although I do have a gallon of malbec press still separate for the 1st time. Doesn’t taste any different tho.

 

[Ajmassa]

This season I went 9 days from the crush, it went dry on day 7, SG was .99 first time I went below 1.00 at press. This was one really perfect fermentation from the start, great grapes, all good numbers.
Keeping a strict regime with intro of additives, I feel made a major difference.
This is fist year I used Lallyzyme, Opti-Red, hydrated with Goferm and Ferm-K.
However I just could not get myself to co inoculate with MLB. I did have some temp spikes in the 90- 94F, I cooled it down back to 85 after about 8-10 hours. My biggest concern for co-inoculating mlb was temp control, I have always had temps reach 90 for brief periods and did not want to chance it.
Maybe next year, I was thinking of creating a cooling system using ice packs inserted into a pouch around the out side of my plastic tanks. This is what I used for a brief period and it did bring the temp down to 85 from 92 after about 8 hours.

How much of that was from the ice packs and how much from natural ferment temp timeline?
That’s a lot of wine man!

I keep hearing opti red mentioned in additions. Does it help a lot for big reds? I thought llayzyme exv was kinda doing that job and enough when it’s quality healthy fruit. I understand it’s all personal opinion But interested in using both next time around. And interested in your thoughts.
I’ve used it before but only on juice pails with reused skins- trying to get the most out of them. I did however add about 1/4 dose of booster rouge to the cab just because I had a leftover packet. Doubt it did much tho.

SG .997. Just a couple ticks above room temp. Gonna punch it and hope she comes back. If not no biggie. Will be pressing tomorrow morning- day 8 since crushing. Today ended up being a long long day.

 

[Mac60]

I’ve had temp spikes into the 90’s with mlb on board, still was finished a couple or three weeks post press. It gives me solace to get my wine sulfited quickly and into the temp controlled wine room in a barrel. Hope you’ll give it a shot one day, I’ll never go back......

Thanks John Good to know you had success at 90 temps, I used the Ice packs 2 time, once they defrosted the temp spiked back up the second round brought back down and from there it naturally dissipated.
But with out the Ice it would have stayed at 92+ for 2 solid days.
The room temp Garage was in 78-80. If I can control the temp and keep it below 90 I will try pitching the MLB in the primary.
I have been reading lots on the topic. It just scared me with 160 gallons of wine, (2 vats with 70 gallons of must and 2 with 27 gallons of must) Each 350L fermenting bin really can generate a lot of heat. I did notice 2 I had maxed out at 19-1/2 lugs each got much hotter than the 2 that 8 lugs each, the smaller batches did not spike past 86F
Mike

 

[Mac60]

How much of that was from the ice packs and how much from natural ferment temp timeline?
That’s a lot of wine man!

I keep hearing opti red mentioned in additions. Does it help a lot for big reds? I thought llayzyme exv was kinda doing that job and enough when it’s quality healthy fruit. I understand it’s all personal opinion But interested in using both next time around. And interested in your thoughts.
I’ve used it before but only on juice pails with reused skins- trying to get the most out of them. I did however add about 1/4 dose of booster rouge to the cab just because I had a leftover packet. Doubt it did much tho.

SG .997. Just a couple ticks above room temp. Gonna punch it and hope she comes back. If not no biggie. Will be pressing tomorrow morning- day 8 since crushing. Today ended up being a long long day. View attachment 51846

Yeah 160 gallons.... Should last a few weeks.... The color and skin maceration I got from the Llayzme EX-V and Opti-Red during AF was outstanding. Looking forward MLF completion will test on Monday to see progress. Good luck with your press tomorrow, looking good.
Mike

 

[CDrew]

I keep hearing opti red mentioned in additions. Does it help a lot for big reds? I thought llayzyme exv was kinda doing that job and enough when it’s quality healthy fruit. I understand it’s all personal opinion But interested in using both next time around. And interested in your thoughts.

So not enough experience to really know but I do know this: Last year's Primitivo came out tasting good and clean, but it's very light bodied and light colored for a wine made from very dark grapes. In bright sun, it could pass for a dark Rose. Not what I was after. So for this year, I hit up the MoreWine manual and catalog and ordered Lallzyme, Opti-Red, FT rouge and used all to make damn sure it didn't happen again. And it didn't! This years Primitivo is dark, well balanced, and nice, right out of the primary. With some oak, it should be great. So carrying this forward, I'm sticking with that plan. Did the additions on the light side of the recommendations, with more experiments to come in future years. I think the Lallzyme makes the biggest difference.

To be honest, Opti-Red looks and smells like Fermaid 0. FT Rouge looks like dark/fine sawdust.

Drinking an interesting wine as I type this-a 2015 Charbono from Renquist. It's inky, lots of depth of flavor. And an unusual grape, even in California.

 

[Johnd]

Thanks John Good to know you had success at 90 temps, I used the Ice packs 2 time, once they defrosted the temp spiked back up the second round brought back down and from there it naturally dissipated.
But with out the Ice it would have stayed at 92+ for 2 solid days.
The room temp Garage was in 78-80. If I can control the temp and keep it below 90 I will try pitching the MLB in the primary.
I have been reading lots on the topic. It just scared me with 160 gallons of wine, (2 vats with 70 gallons of must and 2 with 27 gallons of must) Each 350L fermenting bin really can generate a lot of heat. I did notice 2 I had maxed out at 19-1/2 lugs each got much hotter than the 2 that 8 lugs each, the smaller batches did not spike past 86F
Mike

I run my red ferments in my house, and have a bit more control over temps by adjusting the AC up or down. Whites in the wine room at 55. If you ever get worried about those temp spikes again, try using some dry ice. It will knock temps back, won’t water down your wine, and just emits some CO2, which you’re producing anyway. Not a good solution for control over the whole process, but will knock out spikes for you.

 

[Ajmassa]

Italian American Red

Have 1 full demi and 6gal carboy. It’s been racked off the gross lees and chillin out. When I coinnoculated the Cab last week I also inoculated the “family red” carboy w/Acti-ml and then opti malo. Sat for about a week at 64°-68° before I put the heating pad on it. Once at 74°/75° there was real nice visual MLF activity. I’ll be taking a baseline chroma test on all the new wines later this week. But If the Carboy ends up significantly better- you can bet your ass I’ll be inoculating the demi too. No so2 in the meantime.
Pretty much standard MLf visuals I think.

 

[Ajmassa]

Cabernet
Saturday I pumped out the free run filling the demijohn. Had a lot goin on Saturday and lots of prep so decided to press Sunday(protected skins with some plastic overnight)
Barely enough room but got em all loaded. Pressed. Broke up entire cake and pressed again. Skins not typical mush. I wonder if my enzymes lost potency since packet was leftover from May. All total I got 15gal of free run and pressed out another 8 gal. Yielding 23 gallons from ~30gal of must from 288lbs of grapes.
It’s been .994 since late Friday. By Monday night MLF was visible. The wine with heavy lees I noticed if I gave the carboy a little shimmy then the MLf torpedos would blast out leaving a trail off lees. Always thought that looked pretty cool.
I can only gauge from my own experiences, but with grape wines I notice a point soon after AF when the wine already tastes good enough to drink. Lasts Couple weeks maybe. So when another 1/2 gal of very clear wine dropped out while I was cleaning—-it paired perfectly with my late lasagna dinner. Would have never known it was only 8 days old!



Just made it! Got it all in one shot.

....yeah, I know. No judgements pls!

The yield (minus 1 demi and the white)

This is why I use plain water until after MLf is complete!

 

[mainshipfred]

I've also been using Lallzyme EX, Opti Red and FT Rouge as well as rehydrating with Go Ferm Protect and add Fermaid O at or close to 1/3 sugar depletion. My ferments are cool with the wine in the 70-80* range but I ferment in 6 gallon buckets. Still debating the co inoculation thing though and haven't done it yet.