Other woods?

[blumentopferde]

I'm not an expert in this they just look like they would leave ash residues in the must... But hey! You're experimenting so just try on a small sample to see what happens!

 

[Duster]

I'm not sure because I have never tried it but I wonder if one could toast them in the oven at 400 degrees for a few hours?

 

[Downwards]

The Hungarian oak I bought left my fingers black and ashy from handling them. These aren't anything like that. I can't speak to whether either were as they should be, but I used the Hungarian in my elderberry and it tasted great. I think I will try it, but like you mentioned, it's just an experiment. Not the end of the world however it goes.

 

[LeChat]

I really hope you find interesting results, especially with cherry.

I will have about 20-30 pounds of untreated cherry wood leftovers after I am done doing my wine rack. It would be very cool if I could use the leftovers in wine batches! Anybody in the Ottawa region looking to share this leftover?

 

[bchilders]

First and foremost I have never done this before but... It might be worth noting that wine barrel wood is usually aged or seasoned to allow the "woodiness" of the wood to soften. You might also try toasting your blocks over some charcoal or wood fire on the grill high enough above the heat for a slow roast. Spritzing with water or soaking before hand will help control the roast.

 

[Flip]

I once used Mahogany to make a fantastic Port out of some stuck red wine.
I'm trying it again to see if I can give some boring red a bit of a boost.

 

[Downwards]

I'm not an expert in this they just look like they would leave ash residues in the must... But hey! You're experimenting so just try on a small sample to see what happens!

Actually it turns out you are right! Haven't done the "experiment" yet, but I weighed out these pieces so that when I do I would be using the same amount of wood per gallon. With all the pieces that were overweight I threw them into a gallon of cyser that was aging. This preliminary test won't tell me much because it is mixed woods and because the cyser was already oaked and has elderflower in it. Bottom line, the taste is so complex it's hard to tell what it did. It certainly tastes different than the rest of that batch, and I like it, but it's hard to distinguish what it did. One thing it did do though, was leave a bunch of ash in the bottom that is really light. Hard to pour from that jug without mixing it all in again.

The wine that I will be experimenting on with individual woods (plus an oak one and an unoaked one to compare to) is an apple wine. Done fermenting, but not done clearing. I will rub or sand off much of this char from the wood in the mean time, looks like I over torched.

 

[skyrat]

I really think this is going to be an interesting discussion.

Not to throw a wrench in the thread......Just curious why it seems most folks feel the need to torch the wood. I do a fair amount of meat smoking and never torch the wood prior. Rarely find the need to pre-soak either.

For use in wine I think pre-baking in the oven (to destroy bacterium) is probably a good idea. The wood flavors are going to come out either way and why mess with what Mother Nature created other than to sanitize.

 

[Downwards]

You may be right. I was thinking to torch it to simulate a dark toast like I get on some oaks I buy. But really, it might be more interesting to find out what these woods do just plain first so I get a sense of their flavors before trying them toasted as well. But anyway, I bought so much of them (box meant for smoking woods) that I'll have plenty for a long time for wine. I think I'll still use these and just try and pick a favorite out of the bunch. From there I will try that one with various levels of toast. We'll see..

 

[BernardSmith]

I have a branch from a peach tree that died. How long should I "dry" it at 375 -400 degrees?

 

[skyrat]

Personally I would refrain from using wood from something that died. There was a reason for it and I would not risk my wine (or meat) with the unknown.

If the branches were cut fresh at the time you are probably okay. I use only fresh cut then seasoned woods for flavoring (smoking) purposes. Seasoning is typically 1 year of drying on a 2-3" cross section / wheel (usually branch material) and seasoned like firewood (kept in a dry space to let air dry.

Concerning baking...The bake I would use should be just prior to use (to kill off any possible bacterial issues). How long to bake of course depends on how thick and how dry it is.

Sorry I can't be specific but there are variables that need to be accounted for. If you split the wood into smaller pieces it will of course dry quicker. If you go to bake the wood and it is not completely dry you will see moisture percolate out of the end grain. Not a cause for alarm but you know you will still have sap in the wood.

Green Hickory wood used in smoking imparts some pretty nasty flavors. I ruined a good slab of bacon this way once. Other green woods I would suspect will likely do the same to your wine.

 

[csmithbass]

Well, I just tried to make a post, but it apparently got lost in cyberspace. So rather than retyping it all, i'll give you the short version. Feel free to message me for more details if you'd like:

I would caution you to make sure you do your research about the woods, and especially talk to an Arborist before consuming wines made with woods you have not heard of being used before.

I recently read an article discussing why we can't just ferment any flower for a flower-based wine. The reason being, some flowers, when fermented, produce other toxins (i.e. non-ethanol based compounds) which can be poisonous to humans.

Similarly, while doing research on making wood-based ear jewelry, I found information stating that some exotic-woods, when in contact with the skin, can leach toxins into your body; usually causing black-heads, pimples, or other sores around the area you wear them.

And finally: a fellow mead-maker friend and I were discussing our attempts to use local herbs and plants in our mead. He attempted this with a Boulder, CO native plant. It tasted great, but just a little got him pretty messed up, on the verge of hallucinating. The next morning his eyes were very bloodshot and his skin was yellow. So be careful!

Creativity, and out-of-the-box thinking is excellent. However when using a new substance, please consult an Expert! Find an Arborist who KNOWS the tree; check your local library for information about the chemical make up of the plant; if you have a university near you, see what you can learn.

Do your research before you do harm to yourself!

 

[Downwards]

Good points! I'm sure that these are safe woods though, as they are used for food purposes. If the woods I've chosen were toxic, I'm sure we'd have lost lots of BBQers over the years. Also, toxic is not the same as poisonous. There are toxic compounds in oak as well I'm fairly certain, but in the amounts we use in wine they wouldn't pose any problems. I wouldn't suggest just grabbing any wood blindly though and just adding it to wine, there is plenty out there that certainly are dangerous.

 

[JohnT]

Just to weigh in here (yet again)....

Toast - The method used for most coopers is to slowly taost the wood until the desired darkess is achieved. What they are doing is caramelizing the natural wood sugars. Although (on a dark toast) the wood may look burnt, it is what is below that char that matters.

Another thing that happens is that the wood is "dried". This intensifies what the wood brings to the party.

Toasting wood is a slow and long process. Simply scorching the wood with a blow torch will not give you the same effect. The best thing to do is to bake the wood in the oven.

ASH - You do not want any ash. adding wood ash to your wine would be much like adding lye. If you do have any wood ash after the toasting process, it is important that you scrape and then wash your wood.


Rocky - I hear you on the chestnut. I prefer oak, but chestnut is the preferred wood in northern Italy and there are some rather nice wine comming out of that area.

 

[csmithbass]

In line with BBQ-ers, as we all know, they use something what we typically don't as wine makers:
Fire
Fire/heat, when applied to chemical compounds, changes them in one way or another (i.e. a potentially harmful chemical compound may become inert through the addition of heat). I am no chemist, but I have worked in a field where we altered one substance through simply adding heat. This substance affected the bodily functions differently than if it was never heated.

Poisons and toxins are about as different as squares and rectangles. One is simply a more specific definition of the other.

 

[Downwards]

I'm not the least worried that I'm going to create any unknown poisons by mixing fruit woods with wine. No more than I'd worry I'm going to create a poison by making wine from it's fruit or from any edible fruit that hasn't been used for wine. If you know of any danger, I'd love to hear about it, but a nonspecific fear of what hasn't been done isn't helpful IMO. If I fear anything here it is that it just won't taste good.

 

[skyrat]

I'm not the least worried that I'm going to create any unknown poisons by mixing fruit woods with wine. No more than I'd worry I'm going to create a poison by making wine from it's fruit or from any edible fruit that hasn't been used for wine. If you know of any danger, I'd love to hear about it, but a nonspecific fear of what hasn't been done isn't helpful IMO. If I fear anything here it is that it just won't taste good.

I'm with you on Downwards on this one concerning fruit / nut woods but appreciate Mr. Basses input as well....

We definitely should research as much as possible what we are putting into our wine / bodies in general.

Anyone with ref sites that might help please post.....

 

[Downwards]

In fact, since I've already drunk a gallon of cyser that had some time in all these woods, I already know there is no harm to come from them. This was not part of my experiment in the flavors, just was using up the extra bits after having weighed them out.

 

[dmb2613]

I do not think you have anything to fear useing any wood from the lower 48

 

[Downwards]

I'm still holding off on this. The gallon of cyser I did with a mixture of this wood tasted too green or woody.. I don't know how exactly to describe that, but I think this wood needs to age more before I can really give it a fair shake. My next post here will be when this experiment begins!