Our new home has grape vines.

[Flack1210]

I can tell you that I do know all of what is pictures produces red fruit, it also is only from three of the eight or ten rows that we have. In that section of our yard. Previous owners started a new row that seems.to be only a teen years old from what I read in a different section of the property. That is what produces the white fruit. I did the research on table grapes and tell you the white doesn't fit there.

 

[Dennis Griffith]

You did good KevenL. Once you get some leaves on, post some more pics as that can help in narrowing down the varieties.

 

[BigH]

Let me know if there is specific stuff I need to take picture's of. Thank you all again for your help!

Are there trellis wires running between the cross bars? The cross bars make the trellis system look like Geneva Double Curtain, but I don't think that is what you have. I don't see any wires running between the horizontal cross bars, and the vines look like they were trained to a different system. Also, the cross beams are pretty thin. Not sure those could bear the load of a GDC system.

Some of the pics look like Mid Wire Cordon / Vertical Shoot Position (MWC/VSP) and some look like top wire cordon (TWC). I think the cross bars might be to spread out netting.

H

 

[BigH]

Where should I turn to help me determine what to prune?

Youtube has a lot of good pruning videos. I like the series by Tom Zabadal. They move pretty slow, but they have lots of good information in them.

A key aspect of pruning is being able to identify 1 year old wood vs older wood. Old wood is thick (> 1/2" usually), dark brown in color, and has rough bark that looks like it is pealing off. It just looks kind of tough looking. 1 year old wood is generally less than 1/2" thick, has a light brown or tan color, and completely smooth bark. This distinction is important because 1 year old wood produces shoots this summer that will have fruit on them. Old wood will produce some shoots, but they typically don't have fruit on them. Old wood serves primarily a structural role, like trunks and cordons. Most of the tangled mess that you see consists of 1 year old wood. These are also known as canes. You will remove about 90% of this material during your pruning.

Another key thing to know is whether you are doing spur pruning or cane pruning. It took me forever to understand the difference, so I'm not sure I could really explain it all that well. Best too google that. You will probably do spur pruning.

H

 

[Flack1210]

Quick update. Finally was able to contact precious owner of our home. The varieties that they remember planting were.

St. Vincent
Marechal foch
Frontinac

They could not tell me exactly what rows they were in, and also said their may be another variety as well. All vines have been trimmed, and treated with a fungicide. Thanks again for all of your advice!

 

[cmason1957]

I am guessing they really meant - Marechal Foch and Frontenac. That may make it easier to find some information about those grapes.

 

[Flack1210]

Yeah I don't pay attention to auto correct sometimes that's my fault

 

[CabEnthusiast]

Quick update. Finally was able to contact precious owner of our home. The varieties that they remember planting were.

St. Vincent
Marechal foch
Frontinac

They could not tell me exactly what rows they were in, and also said their may be another variety as well. All vines have been trimmed, and treated with a fungicide. Thanks again for all of your advice!

St Vincent is a possible cross of Pinot Noir and Chambourcin but that is not confirmed yet. At least that's what UC Davis told me. So that's pretty cool they also cannot be old vines as the varietal was not discovered until 1973 and was not available until the 1990's for planting.

 

[Flack1210]

They started building the vineyard 20yrs ago and added on from there.

 

[CabEnthusiast]

They started building the vineyard 20yrs ago and added on from there.

Should be good vines because they have a good amount of age on them!

 

[Stressbaby]

So what you need to do if you want to really do this is read up on managing the acid in hybrid grape wines. The issues they deal with in California vinifera don't apply at all...they're adding acid, we're trying to get the acid down.

You might think seriously about making a rosé. That's what I did from both my Frontenac and Foch last year (first year), it turned out pretty good. I have read of some who have given up making red wine from Frontenac and now just make rosé every year, and it is because of the acid.

 

[Flack1210]

I appreciate the advice. Just out of curiosity, since I'm new to this. What should I expect from 60 vines if they all produce and average amount of fruit? I know this answer will vary just curious so I can make some sort of plan.

 

[Stressbaby]

I'll take a shot...

If no losses from birds, other critters, rot, insects, I'd plan for at least 10#/vine, on the order of 30 gal of wine. BUT any one of those could wipe you out if not careful.

My two cents. Others with more years of experience might chime in.

 

[BigH]

What should I expect from 60 vines if they all produce and average amount of fruit? I know this answer will vary just curious so I can make some sort of plan.

From my 2018 harvest spreadsheet, I tend to get 1 gallon of wine/juice per 14 lbs of harvested fruit. 1 gallons equals 5 750 ml bottles. I have pretty rich soils that produce a heavy crop. Around 15 lbs per vine. I net everything, and work diligently to eliminate other pests. You can probably expect 8 to 12 lbs per vine if the vineyard is in good shape and you protect the crop from birds and critters. That works out to 23 to 34 gallons or 115 to 170 bottles.

H

 

[Newine]

Don't give up on red with Foch and Frontenac. Research yeast that can help reduce acid like lalvin 71B, monitor ripeness (don't pick too early, check brix and pH to confirm) put through MLF to further reduce acid and towards the end before bottling cold stabilize to drop tartaric acid out and with a bit of oak adjuncts along the way you can make a pretty decent red

 

[KevinL]

So I'm not too far from you. I've got Frontenac, but not Foch. Have you done your pruning yet? Have a picture?

One thing with Frontenac in this area is Black rot. I think you should be prepared to start a spray program to control fungus. Even a few simple applications can save your crop from destruction. I'm not sure what diseases will affect the Foch, but I imagine they're similar.

On the winemaking, I find that I actually have taken a liking to the acidy flavor of the Frontenac. I use oak, 71b and MLF. I

 

[Flack1210]

So I'm not too far from you. I've got Frontenac, but not Foch. Have you done your pruning yet? Have a picture?

One thing with Frontenac in this area is Black rot. I think you should be prepared to start a spray program to control fungus. Even a few simple applications can save your crop from destruction. I'm not sure what diseases will affect the Foch, but I imagine they're similar.

On the winemaking, I find that I actually have taken a liking to the acidy flavor of the Frontenac. I use oak, 71b and MLF. I

I have done..my pruning and will take pictures if you would still like. Some how my notifications have gotten turned off so I just saw this.

 

[KevinL]

We always like pictures here. If you'd like feedback on what you did we'll take a look.