Pectic Haze?

[rshelton]

Is there a way to determine if a cloudy wine is pectic haze? Is watermelon super susceptible to it? My recipe book acquired with my fruit wine kit shows no mention of pectic enzyme in the recipe, so being my first batch and sea of ignorance I didn't add any. Can you add it at any stage if it's necessary? Or should I rely on a clarifying agent?

 

[winemaker81]

Any fruit containing pectin can be subject to pectin haze. Off the top of my head I don't know the list. As a general rule, I add pectic enzyme to all fruit wines as it doesn't hurt and improves extraction.

You can add pectic enzyme at any time. Pre-fermentation use the dosage indicated on the package. Post fermentation, the alcohol makes it less effective, so some folks add double or triple doses.

If you have pectin haze, clarifying agents will not clear it.

 

[BigDaveK]

Jam makers have a couple ways to test for pectin and CJJ Berry mentions one of them to identify haze:

Add 100 ml of methylated spirit (denatured alcohol) to 30 ml wine. If jelly-like clots or strings form, there's pectin.

I believe all/most fruits have pectin - some a minuscule amount, some a lot. I'm with Bryan and add pectic enzyme to all my fruit wines.

 

[winemaker81]

Jam makers have a couple ways to test for pectin and CJJ Berry mentions one of them to identify haze:

Good tip.

My first encounter with pectin haze was in a cherry wine made from concentrate, many moons ago. It was like silver ribbons swirling through the wine. I added pectic enzyme, and the wine cleared in a matter of hours. That sold me on adding pectic enzyme pre-fermentation.

 

[Raptor99]

Add 100 ml of methylated spirit (denatured alcohol) to 30 ml wine. If jelly-like clots or strings form, there's pectin.

Just in case anyone isn't clear on this, denatured alcohol it toxic, so don't drink any wine samples that have been tested in this way.

 

[BigDaveK]

Just in case anyone isn't clear on this, denatured alcohol it toxic, so don't drink any wine samples that have been tested in this way.

Excellent point, my bad! I shouldn't make assumptions. Thank you!

 

[tjmeyer]

Just in case anyone isn't clear on this, denatured alcohol it toxic, so don't drink any wine samples that have been tested in this way.

great catch! These typically (not sure if always) have a good amount of methanol (CH3OH), a big no no to consume.

 

[Rice_Guy]

Watermelon fruit is not a good source of pectin. ,,, ie low risk the haze is pectin.
Do you know what your pH is? Several species of lactic acid bacteria multiply in wine which is above pH 3.5 and decrease the total acidity. A few lactic acid bacteria are capable of producing a haze. If you have a bacterial infection reducing the pH below 3.2 and treating with metabisulphite will kill it. The haze can be removed with a #3 BonVino filter pad.

 

[rshelton]

When I get home tonight I was planning on adding my pectic enzyme. My super kleer will probably be delivered by then. Should I just pop in my KC and let her go or should I pectic enzyme it first?

 

[rshelton]

Also, you fellas are awesome. I really do appreciate your time

 

[winemaker81]

When I get home tonight I was planning on adding my pectic enzyme. My super kleer will probably be delivered by then. Should I just pop in my KC and let her go or should I pectic enzyme it first?

Give the enzyme a few days to work.

 

[QuiQuog]

Add 100 ml of methylated spirit (denatured alcohol) to 30 ml wine. If jelly-like clots or strings form, there's pectin.

Does it need to be denatured alcohol? Would Everclear work?

 

[rshelton]

Watermelon fruit is not a good source of pectin. ,,, ie low risk the haze is pectin.
Do you know what your pH is? Several species of lactic acid bacteria multiply in wine which is above pH 3.5 and decrease the total acidity. A few lactic acid bacteria are capable of producing a haze. If you have a bacterial infection reducing the pH below 3.2 and treating with metabisulphite will kill it. The haze can be removed with a #3 BonVino filter pad.

No I don't know what my pH is but I have strips coming today. I have got all the necessary accessories and additives quite yet for this winemaking thing. Slowly but surely.

 

[winemaker81]

No I don't know what my pH is but I have strips coming today. I have got all the necessary accessories and additives quite yet for this winemaking thing. Slowly but surely.

Don't be concerned with not getting everything at once. Taking your time gives you the opportunity to think through the many potential purchases and avoid buying stuff you will later realize you don't need.

 

[rshelton]

Don't be concerned with not getting everything at once. Taking your time gives you the opportunity to think through the many potential purchases and avoid buying stuff you will later realize you don't need.

Yes I nearly purchased some fancy smancy pH tester Saturday. Then I thought of pool type strips. Then the thought occurred whether the Roman's had such dilemmas.

 

[winemaker81]

Yes I nearly purchased some fancy smancy pH tester Saturday. Then I thought of pool type strips. Then the thought occurred whether the Roman's had such dilemmas.

I'm reading a history book of wine, and it stated that we'd not recognize wine from the Roman era as wine, much less as being drinkable.

I made wine for decades without doing any acid testing, and a few years back I started using test strips. About 1.5 years ago I purchased a mid-range pH tester (about $75 USD at that time), and I do find it useful.

Pre-fermentation it's good to know the pH. I need to read up on how to use the meter to determine TA, which is a more useful number. I have an acid titration kit, but totally suck at using it.

Post-fermentation, I do all acid adjustments by taste. My (tongue-in-cheek) comment is that the pH tester won't drink the wine, so I don't care what it's opinion is.

Also, I keep in mind something I read: The enemy of Good is not Bad. The true enemy is Better.

In that vein I don't chase perfect numbers, and I don't tinker and re-tinker with the wine to make it better. I adjust things (or not) until I like it, then I bottle and do not second guess my decision.

 

[Raptor99]

Pre-fermentation I look at two numbers: pH and SG. It is important to get them in the right range for the wine chemistry. Post-fermentation I don't measure anything. At that point the adjustments are all about flavor, not numbers.

Also, I keep in mind something I read: The enemy of Good is not Bad. The true enemy is Better.

But it is also true that Good is the worst enemy of Best. I don't chase numbers, but I am always looking for ways to improve my wine.

 

[Ohio Bob]

The enemy of Good is not Bad. The true enemy is Better.

You should put that in your signature! I think I’ve seen you write that 10 times a year.

 

[winemaker81]

You should put that in your signature! I think I’ve seen you write that 10 times a year.

I say a lot of things at least 10 times each year ... contact the forum owner and ask for a larger space for sigs!

 

[BigDaveK]

Does it need to be denatured alcohol? Would Everclear work?

Good question! I don't know.
Denatured alcohol I believe is basically ethanol with a boatload of additives (like methanol and acetone) to make it toxic and undrinkable.