Persimmon Mead

[Jericurl]

...Or as we have taken to calling it
"20 lbs of crazy in a 5 gallon bag"

20 lbs American Persimmons
5 gallons water
@ 14-15 lbs mesquite honey (SG @ 1.084)
Cotes de Blanc yeast
2 T pectic enzyme

For this batch, persimmons were frozen/thawed and placed in a 5 gallon paint strainer bag. Boiling water was poured over persimmons.
When water cooled, I added 2 T of pectic enzyme. After 24 hours, yeast was pitched.

I'll be adding 4.6 grams Fermaid O @ beginning, 24 hours, 48 hours, 72 hours from pitch.

I'm considering adding some American or French oak powder when I get home from work, about 1/2 the amount you would add for a white wine. It won't be enough to give it an oak flavor, just something to round out the mouthfeel, etc.

I'm also considering removing the bags at around day 4, then adding some bentonite. I think this will perhaps mitigate the infamous gym sock smell as well as help in compacting some of the lees. I plan on racking just about everything but the very bottom and siphoning the liquid off the top as it all compacts.

 

[Jericurl]

For anyone curious, I've used this calculator to determine how much nutrient to add:

http://www.meadmakr.com/batch-buildr/

 

[crwagner89]

Did you take a specific gravity reading after mixing in the honey? I always read that 1 lb of honey per gallon would raise the must by about 35 gravity points. By those numbers your OG should be around 1.105 plus the sugar from the fruit. I'm not assuming you're wrong, just wondering how accurate my information is.

Also thanks for linking to the calculator, that's a useful tool!

 

[Jericurl]

I took my reading after mixing in my honey, after fruit had been in the water with pectic enzyme for 24 hours.
I was a bit surprised by the lower than expected SG numbers as well.
I know the honey was mixed in adequately as I used my drill for mixing.
All I can figure is that the fruit diluted quite a bit. I know my volume amount with the addition of fruit and honey is probably getting me closer to @ 7-8 gallons. Right now I'll be happy with a finished SG of 11.5%. Should I want to raise that later, I've still got persimmons in the freezer, so I can make another gallon with a very high SG then add it back in later.

 

[crwagner89]

I gotcha, with the extra volume in there it sounds about right to me. Hope it turns out good for ya.

 

[Stressbaby]

Day three, take off the lid and inhale deeply and tell me what you find. ::
Also, post some pics of the carboy, I'm interested in how much sediment you have.

 

[Jericurl]

Day three, take off the lid and inhale deeply and tell me what you find. ::
Also, post some pics of the carboy, I'm interested in how much sediment you have.

Lol....I'm hoping to avoid what you are referring to by removing the bag earlier than I normally would!

I will try to get pictures posted from the side of the carboy so you can see the separation. After we added the pectic enzyme and tossed the bags in, there was already a sediment layer several inches thick in the bottom of the carboy at 24 hours. After mixing in the honey, I'm not sure if it will show again or not, but yeah, that is some serious sediment.

 

[Jericurl]

Here's a picture showing the amount of sediment in this batch.
This was after work yesterday, so it had about 10 hours since the last time it had been stirred.

At the first hint of an off smell, I'll be taking out the bag and tossing it.

 

[Mumazilla]

I'm on my 3rd batch of persimmon wine. My first gallon batch is nearly gone. My 2nd is just sitting in 2 gallon jugs, and my latest I just racked into 5 gallon carboy (though only 4 gallons in it. I will process the last of my 10 pounds into another strong 1.5 gallon to use as top off this week. This last batch I used honey.

 

[Jericurl]

I'm on my 3rd batch of persimmon wine. My first gallon batch is nearly gone. My 2nd is just sitting in 2 gallon jugs, and my latest I just racked into 5 gallon carboy (though only 4 gallons in it. I will process the last of my 10 pounds into another strong 1.5 gallon to use as top off this week. This last batch I used honey.

Right now I am supremely unimpressed with the flavor. It tastes like bread to me. No sweetness, no persimmon, just bread. I've got a couple of pounds of persimmons left in the freezer. I'm thinking about making a flavor pack with the persimmon, some ginger, and some honey and adding it.
I'm wondering if I added too much bentonite and stripped out a lot of the flavor.

 

[Mumazilla]

I used bentonite with my 2nd batch. My first cleared nicely on it's own. But, it did have that horrid smell and no flavor. So, with this, I've taken the fruit out when I said, "this smells great", SG 1.032. The honey with this batch is super. I ran out of honey and add 2 lb brown sugar to get the SG 1.102. The 2nd batch, I got too busy to do that, and my notes read, "No off smell, no real flavor" on 12-6-16. (My notes say that of my 1st batch too). I did have the fruit in a mesh bag, and then I siphoned it thru panty hose to get more of the mush out. I do lose half the volume at racking. So, I guess, just wait it out and try in another 3 months for the flavor to come out. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Mumazilla]

Finally did another racking on the mead. So far, it is still a little blah, young taste. Clearing nicely into a bright orange mead. Time, time, time!

How is yours coming along Jericurl?

 

[Jericurl]

I need to taste mine again and see where it is at. Last time, it was terrible. All yeast. No honey, no persimmon, nothing. Tasted like bread. I added a cinnamon stick to it a couple of months ago. If it still has zero persimmon taste to it, then I will spice it up and finish it off and bottle.

 

[Stressbaby]

Just for fun I went back and tallied my attempts at persimmon wine/mead.

96# of persimmons over 8 batches, 18 gallons. And none of it was ever good enough that we finished a bottle. I take that back. Not one was ever good enough to finish a glass.

So I hope for the best for you guys but fear the worst. My tree makes 150-200# per year, and all the persimmons I get will be going to bread and cookies from now on.

 

[Jericurl]

It's such a shame, since persimmon pudding is one of my favorite things in the whole world.
I'm going to attempt to save this one by adding a bunch of things that would taste good paired with "bread." So lots of spices and vanilla. If worst comes to worst, I'll get some flavoring extracts from Olive Nation and have a fun little run at wacky flavor experiments. Grand Marnier wedding cake mead anyone?

 

[Jericurl]

And I can't say you didn't warn me! I'm just glad I'm stopping at 6 gallons.

 

[Earldw]

Wouldn’t persimmon wine and fig wine have the same type of issues? They are both soft, dry for volume and very mild in taste. Persimmons can be quite astringent but neither are very tart. I am very curious how this works out cause I have both.