PH and TA levels in Elderberry wine

[NickyH]

Hi
Just started my second Elderberry wine using dried berries and I am having the same problem I had with the first.
I got high PH of 3.0 and 3.1 respectively whilst the TA for both is 0.54% which I am happy with for a none grape red wine.

What to do?

If I had lowered the PH to 3.4/3.6, which I’ve been told is what it should be at.
The TA would have almost certainly have dropped to below 0.50%, which is below the 0.5/0.6 range I’ve read that I should be aiming for.
So which is the most important PH or TA?
I'm looking for advice on what to do ready for my next batch of Elderberry.

Kindest Regards
Nick

 

[Masbustelo]

At 3.0 or 3.1, you have low pH, not high. It is odd that with elderberries that you have such a low pH. I think in order to better answer your questions, people would like to see the recipe you are using? At that low of pH you might have fermentation problems. Are you using a pH meter?

 

[Julie]

That ph and acid does not seem right. I can't see you having that low of a TA with that ph. And for the record TA at .80% is what I would am for.

 

[NickyH]

Thank you for helping.

I thought the lower the PH number the higher the acid level?

The recipe is rather basic

4.5l water
250g of dried Elderberries
1400g sugar
No acids or tannin added

Starting SG was 1.110

These readings were taken today which is day 4 of the primary fermentation.
SG 1.046
PH 3.03
TA 0.54%
Temperature as been 20 to 22c

The first demijohn fermented ok to 0.992SG with a PH 3.1 and 0.54%TA.
I've put it through its first racking just recently.

And yes I am using a PH meter.

Cheers
Nick

 

[NickyH]

Hi Julie

I'm basing my target of 0.5/0.6 from the Jack Keller website. I've read is website being quoted quite often, so I am assuming he is quiet well respected.
He advises this range for none grape reds.

Is he wrong? or is it down personal taste's? are there other sources to get this info from?

I know what you mean about it not looking right.

But I've done the test a number of times now using different techniques and come up with the same results.
Using acid indicator and Hydroxide and using the PH meter method.

Cheers
Nick

 

[Julie]

jack Keller is a very good winemaker but a lot of people prefer more fruit that what Jacks says and I am one of them. I use to have my TA between the .55% and .65% but a very good winemaker told me .80% would make a better wine and he sent one of his wines. And he was right, TA at .80% makes a very tasty wine.

I can't help you on how much dried elderberries to use but if you decide to use fresh go with 4 to 5 pounds per gallon.

 

[NickyH]

Thanks Julie, I will give it a go

I'm sure I read somewhere that with dried fruit, one should think in terms of 25%
To achieve 0.8% do you add acid or do you get this by fruit alone?

 

[Julie]

I add acid blend.

 

[SBWs]

I had the low pH low acid happen to me once and never did figure out why. I fermented and then added acid. After ferment lower pH isn't as big a deal and with a lower pH you don't need as much sulfite.

Agree with Julie on getting acid up a bit. I have used Real Lemon Juice to add some acid to Elderberry as Citric is the dominant acid in Elderberries.

 

[Norton]

Were you checking ph during fermentation ? I understand that fermentation process affects ph readings