Planning for first from grapes wine

[ChuckD]

It's usually easier to hear MLF rather than see it... stick your ear next to the top of your (open!) carboy and you should hear a faint crackling. If it's slowing down, it might be more of an intermittent soft pop-pop-pop. I would expect it to take at least a few weeks to complete, depending on temperature, pH, alcohol % and MLB strain.

I find if I shine a strong flashlight at the neck of the carboy I can see the tiny bubbles.

 

[hawkwing]

It's been a while since I've been on here.

I'd like to thank everyone for their help! It made this new adventure much easier and definitely made it better.

I did see little bubbles during the MLF fermentation. I didn't do any testing but assume it finished.

I finally got around to racking and tasting everything this last week and am very pleased.

The Cabernet Sauvignon is the best. It finished nice a fruity and slightly sweet. Not sweet like a port just not dry. It may have been a slight change from carboy to carboy. Likely from the first press with more free run juice to the end where I had to press more. Definitely better than anything I've purchased before. I'm not sure if I just got lucky with the year or I just like it better. I'm going to get mostly Cabernet this year I think.

The Merlot was pretty good too. Very happy with it. It was a little drier and slightly astringent but quite smooth. But I'd say just as good if not better than what I've purchased before.

The Zinfandel wasn't as fresh to drink in my opinion but it might turn out good yet. It was drier tasting and more spicy.

The Alicante was ok but as a single varietal I probably wouldn't get it again.

I may play with blending at some point but I don't think I can waste any of the Cabernet in blending. I can't see how it could improve.

I never got around to adding the oak yet. Not sure if it's still worth it or not?

I'm converted to making wine from grapes. It's far better than anything I've made before. Even the pail of Nebbiolo I got last year doesn't compare. I'm probably going to make mostly Cabernet this year.

I'd like to try making a port and I hope to try maybe a ruby port this year. In the future I hope to get a barrel and try for a tawny. Not sure if I would be most happy with Cabernet as a single varietal or if I should do a blend. I've seen some recommendations using Syrah and Zinfandel. As a blend Syrah (75%), Merlot (20%), Alicante (5%). The Alicante was for color but I can't claim it adds much color and my Cab, Merlot, and Zinfandel have lots of color. They also recommend 50/50 Syrah and Zinfandel. I have no idea what's the right combination for me or what's most authentic to what I'm used to. These suggestions come from Luscious Port Wine - WineMakerMag.com. Has anyone attempted this before with or without a barrel and how did it turn out?

As I look into ordering for this year I am considering a white mostly for cooking but someday I'll make a champagne. In my area white grapes are not really available. It's mostly only juice that is shipped. Given how white wine is made is that basically just as good? I'd be limited to Muscat, French Columbard and Thompson Seedless if I wanted grapes. Probably only Thompson seedless in the future.

Last year I picked out almost all stems. Not sure if that was a mistake or not. It sure tastes right. How much would change if I wasn't so picky? I'll be using a crusher destemmer this year and could just not bother picking out anymore than what comes through.

I'm also considering getting something like FT Rouge. Last year I added 1/4 tsp grape tannin per two lugs. What are people doing here?

I'm happy with the Renaissance Avante yeast and CH-16 MLF. I'll probably continue with them and maybe get something for white from them. Should I try another red variety?

I may pick up some larger fermenters too. The 20 gallon only held 4 lugs and the 8's two lugs.

I'm undecided if I should try zinfandel again. Maybe I should get a bottle from the store to compare. I may have messed it up with acid addition and neutralization. I'm not sure how exactly I got in that situation again. If I had reading errors or if the tartaric dissolved slowly or what but I thought I overshot then I over neutralized and then had to bring it back to a correct spot. So that may be why I don't like the Zinfandel as much. Hard to say. But it's probably still better than a kit. Maybe I'm just in love with the fruity sweetness of the Cabernet. Time and another taste will tell.

 

[tullamore]

thats too bad about ur Alicante - ive always had good success a single varietal - its a big tannic wine
if don't like it too much blend it with your zin get a couple of lugs of Muscat -blend all 3 - i'm sure u will like the outcome
being out West ur grapes are in already? here in Ontario grapes won't be in for other few weeks
as for blending - everyones pallet is different - do bench trails with different amounts and choose what u like
do u know where your grapes came from? - Lodi, Central Valley?

 

[hawkwing]

thats too bad about ur Alicante - ive always had good success a single varietal - its a big tannic wine
if don't like it too much blend it with your zin get a couple of lugs of Muscat -blend all 3 - i'm sure u will like the outcome
being out West ur grapes are in already? here in Ontario grapes won't be in for other few weeks
as for blending - everyones pallet is different - do bench trails with different amounts and choose what u like
do u know where your grapes came from? - Lodi, Central Valley?

Our grapes are not in yet. Possibly September 17th. TBD.

These were last years. I got one batch from a guy who owns a wine store. They were in wood boxes and were labeled Pia. The others were in plastic and probably were Lodi. They were from a produce importer. I don’t have a picture of the label. But it looked the same as the plastic boxes on more winemaking. The latter were $22 more per lug. But the first will eventually go away. Not sure if one was better than the other. Probably not but apparently in the past one was better because they were a bit later and had less green grapes. The guy who told me this said they had $2000 worth of undrinkable wine between three families.

I don’t think the Alicante was bad. But compared to the cab and merlot there isn’t much comparison for my taste buds.

 

[hawkwing]

Can a brute either 32, 44 or 55 gallon be filled up? Are they strong enough? Or is it wiser to get the heavier blue barrels?

While I’d like the white barrels the Homedepot price is much better.

 

[ChuckD]

Can a brute either 32, 44 or 55 gallon be filled up? Are they strong enough? Or is it wiser to get the heavier blue barrels?

While I’d like the white barrels the Homedepot price is much better.

I’ve filled my 32 gallon ones as high as you want to so they don’t “boil over”. I don’t know that I would try to lift them… I use the rolling bases.

 

[hawkwing]

I’ve filled my 32 gallon ones as high as you want to so they don’t “boil over”. I don’t know that I would try to lift them… I use the rolling bases.

Thanks. I don’t think the larger ones are any taller so the pressure won’t be any greater or marginal if slightly taller. Not sure how the floor will stand up to the weight on the wheels. Likely to be 400lbs give or take.

 

[hawkwing]

Well I got a bunch of grapes coming Sunday and probably some next week too. I'm helping load customers at the store again in the morning too. Then I have a lot of cases to deal with and it's my sons birthday. Boo

I got a crusher destemmer though. I got some 44 gallon cans and barrels too. I picked up some of those wheeled dollies. Not the Brute ones as they are only rated for 250 lbs. I got the 882lbs ones from princess auto. I got an old #35 wine press too. I pressure washed it and cleaned it up. I got some paint for it but will wait until after using it I think. I want to give lots of time for the paint to dry not two days. I got that food grade paint from Bosagrape. I'm thinking I can only press 3 lugs at at time of white grapes after a fresh crush but I sure hope it's more than that so I'm not up all night.

 

[hawkwing]

My Cabernet has SG 1.085. Down from last year by quite a bit. About 27 points. What’s the minimum one should want before adding sugar. Should I add sugar and to what level?

 

[winemaker81]

My Cabernet has SG 1.085. Down from last year by quite a bit. About 27 points. What’s the minimum one should want before adding sugar. Should I add sugar and to what level?

It all depends on what you want. 1.085 will give you a result of 11-12% ABV (depending on which equation you trust).

I like "big" Cabs, so I'd chaptalize to 1.100, which is 13-14% ABV.

27 points above 1.085? I assume you mean 1.112. That's 15%+, which is a bit hot for my taste. My 2019 Merlot and Zinfandel both came in at 15.7%, and it took nearly 4 years for them to mellow out and not taste unbalanced.

 

[CDrew]

My Cabernet has SG 1.085. Down from last year by quite a bit. About 27 points. What’s the minimum one should want before adding sugar. Should I add sugar and to what level?

That's only 20.5 brix, which is too low in my opinion. I'd add enough sugar to get the brix to 23ish. When you run the math, it will sound like a lot of sugar, but trust the math and press on. (Bad unintentional pun there!) My brix were down a bit this year too and both the Syrah and the Primitivo were only 23 brix. Any lower and I would have chapatalized to something a bit higher.

There are other factors though. Did the grapes and seeds taste ripe? Was the pH appropriate? Do you have TA numbers?

 

[hawkwing]

That's only 20.5 brix, which is too low in my opinion. I'd add enough sugar to get the brix to 23ish. When you run the math, it will sound like a lot of sugar, but trust the math and press on. (Bad unintentional pun there!) My brix were down a bit this year too and both the Syrah and the Primitivo were only 23 brix. Any lower and I would have chapatalized to something a bit higher.

There are other factors though. Did the grapes and seeds taste ripe? Was the pH appropriate? Do you have TA numbers?

They tasted sweet. My French Colombard was 1.070 and it was slightly sour and not so sweet.

For the cab sav the initial pH was 3.7 and now it’s at 3.42 after adding some tartaric. I didn’t measure TA. I’ll add sugar. That was my thought was to get in the 13-14 range but just wanted to verify that. Thanks everyone.

 

[CDrew]

Why did you add Tartaric acid at pH 3.7? That's about right and suggests you harvested at the right time (since the pH is rising as ripening progresses). But I agree that adding a minimal amount of sugar to get to 23-24 brix is likely a good idea. We had weird conditions last year with extreme heat stalling ripening, so brix were low and acid was also low. So we harvested around 22 Brix, but with pH barely adequate. I Chaptalized to brix 24 and the wine at a year old is sound and good. I guess it's why some years make better wines than others!

Now this year, so far, has been different. Brix are low (maybe the cold spring) but pH is perfect. I almost added sugar to my Syrah, but every other parameter was nice so I left it alone. If we were in France, this would be a non-issue as sugar additions are not allowed.

 

[hawkwing]

Why did you add Tartaric acid at pH 3.7? That's about right and suggests you harvested at the right time (since the pH is rising as ripening progresses). But I agree that adding a minimal amount of sugar to get to 23-24 brix is likely a good idea. We had weird conditions last year with extreme heat stalling ripening, so brix were low and acid was also low. So we harvested around 22 Brix, but with pH barely adequate. I Chaptalized to brix 24 and the wine at a year old is sound and good. I guess it's why some years make better wines than others!

Now this year, so far, has been different. Brix are low (maybe the cold spring) but pH is perfect. I almost added sugar to my Syrah, but every other parameter was nice so I left it alone. If we were in France, this would be a non-issue as sugar additions are not allowed.

I added tartaric because in my notes I had a target range of 3.4-3.6. I guess is was close enough but after a couple long days, short nights and being up until 3:30 am processing grapes and cleaning up, then work at 6:30, I’m running in auto pilot.

I added 2.5kg sugar and got SG 1.105. That should work just fine. I added Fermaid K and Avante.

How long should I let Lallzyme EX-V work before adding fermentation tannin?

 

[hawkwing]

I’m glad I got a crusher destemmer and a larger #35 basket press. The Cabernet flew threw really fast. But the white grapes took longer because I was pressing them.