please help, do I need to cement my end posts? general anchor/trellis post question.

[TimTheWiner]

I ended up going with these for earth anchors, mainly because the cost was attractive and just added it to the hundreds of dollars charge to my HD card (interest free thank god).
http://www.homedepot.com/p/t/202719...toreId=10051&N=5yc1v&R=202719050#.UV9rqFdWXKU

They are not quite as beefy as the ones I've seen in local vineyards, but I think/hope they should be sufficient. I DO really want to slightly angle my end posts, but I think the length of my posts may prevent it anyway. All my mid posts are cut to 8' 2" (so about 6' out of ground, or about 5' 10" top VSP wire height), but my end posts are just about 8' or a max of maybe 9', so think angling them may not even be an option or the vertical height once angled at 30° may not be high enough for the top wire. So I think vertical it may be, and I feel like I can get a vertical post a bit more secure with tamping rocks. 14 hours til kick off!

 

[spaniel]

For 12-vine rows I do not think you NEED to use concrete, obviously it will be more solid if you do. My original rows are 10 vines each. I used treated 4X4 angled endposts (would have used 6X6 for longer life but didn't have it at the time) with steel runner posts. For ground anchors, I bought $2 36"X3/8" re-rod at Lowes. Then, using a hole in the blade on my tractor, I bent a loop into the top for the wire to the post and a 90-degree bend toward the bottom with 6" bent out. Then I dig a hole ~3ft deep, and pour 2X80lb bags of concrete over the bent end of that re-bar...that ground anchor isn't going anywhere.

The auger-style ground anchors are difficult to use in our heavy soil, they just don't want to bite and they are very difficult to turn in.

I did concrete my endposts, thought I left room to move things if they ever need replacing. We can get really nasty winds here, I was concerned if I did not cement them. We got an 80+ mph wind here last year when the grapes were hanging heavy; the windward row bent three steel runner posts that I bent back today as I was pruning, but the near endpost held it from doing any more damage.

Today I put in my longest row...30 vines coming in soon. I used a similar setup, except I found some 4X6 endposts (really wish I could have found 6X6 but ran out of time). I will put a couple non-concreted 4X4 runner posts in addition to the steel ones to hold this longer run, with long staples on the wires.

For tighteners, I order Wirevises from Orchard Valley supply for <$2 apiece. Easy to install and use, each spring I just clamp a vise-grip onto the wire, put a foot on the endpost and tug hard, and I'm done.

RE the frost -- if you concrete the hold from bottom to the top, yes you are likely to get frost heaving. That's why you don't do it that way. I dig my holes ~3ft deep, but wider than an auger would, and pour a wider pad about a foot deep that ends about 2' below the surface. The frost won't get under that here. Been doing it that way for 25 years now and never had a post move.

 

[Trieste]

Great thread! I'm about to set posts as well, and am wondering if 2' is deep enough for the holes? I'm planning on a slight angle and angles for the end posts, and like many other here have 60' rows. Cheers!

 

[TimTheWiner]

I think 2' was sufficient, but if you have longer posts, I don't think it hurts going deeper. From what I understand, general rule of thumb is 1/3 of the post in the ground. For me, we dug out to 2' with the backhoe so it wasn't hard getting to 2', but you knew when you hit the "bottom". Rocks galore.

 

[Trieste]

Shockwave,where did you get your trellis supplies? Anyone good nearby?

 

[TimTheWiner]

Craigslist for the cedar (and it wasn't as "good" as I hoped). Tractor supply for wire and most tools and accessories.

 

[Trieste]

I think I just talked to the guy that sold you the posts. He said he may have a few more. Funny.

 

[jswordy]

Not building a trellis (yet) but I have built a lot of farm fence! A few comments FWIW:

-- If you set your posts 36" as the goal (if possible to drill that deep), they will be much more stable than if you go 24" and the trellis/fence will last longer.

-- I would use concrete on the end posts, whether you angle them or not. The concrete increases the diameter of the post and makes for better anchoring. I concrete in all corner and gate posts on my farm fence. I would not use it for line posts. One drawback: Concrete does make it more difficult to replace rotted posts later on.

-- The use of 1-1/2" staples on the wires will be more than sufficient to hold them. If you do not drive the staples in tight, you can still turnbuckle the wires for tautness or use a stretcher. Much easier to replace posts later.

-- If you do not have a stretcher but have a truck, heavier model garden tractor or ATV, attach the wire to the vehicle by looping it back on itself around the hitch and winding it around itself, and pull it taut. Staple tightly in place and cut.

-- On the end posts, wires should be looped around the post and wound around themselves, and staples also used. This is a much sturdier construction than relying on staples alone.

-- There is an alternate end post system that involves building an H of posts and the crisscrossing an X of wire on it, tightening that with two pieces of wood or conduit that are then left in place. It is typical of farm fence corners and would require no anchors.

I use an X but this illustrates the point...



-- Whatever you do, be aware of the amount of weight on these wires. Fully mature vines an be several hundred pounds each with fruit on them. Plan accordingly and upsize whenever possible.

Like I say, FWIW...

 

[TimTheWiner]

Thanks for the insightful reply. I wish I had seen it before finishing everything last month, but still have the wire to run. I did only manage to go t o24" deep on the end posts, mostly because the rocky soil made it difficult to dig at all (had to use a backhoe to dig out last year to 2' deep). I wanted to cement the end posts, but couldn't see swinging the extra $150-$200 at the time, so I beat rocks in around it. Some seem very secure, a few not so much. My idea is that although there is a lot of forcing pulling inwards and down on the end posts, I am hoping that running an opposing wire to the ground with 36" earth anchors with not allow them to pull in. We'll see I guess.

 

[jswordy]

Thanks for the insightful reply. I wish I had seen it before finishing everything last month, but still have the wire to run. I did only manage to go t o24" deep on the end posts, mostly because the rocky soil made it difficult to dig at all (had to use a backhoe to dig out last year to 2' deep). I wanted to cement the end posts, but couldn't see swinging the extra $150-$200 at the time, so I beat rocks in around it.

That'll work!

Some seem very secure, a few not so much. My idea is that although there is a lot of forcing pulling inwards and down on the end posts, I am hoping that running an opposing wire to the ground with 36" earth anchors with not allow them to pull in. We'll see I guess.

That'll work, too!

 

[HillPeople]

As long as your earth anchors are secure, nothing's going anywhere.

 

[bchilders]

OK, just want to be 100% of how I should set me end posts which needs to get done within the next 2 weeks. I have posted a pic below of what I see as the 3 options all of which use earth anchors as well. Option 1 would seem the quickest and easiest. They are 60' rows with 2 mid posts (20' apart). The pic is concerning the beefy end posts. All of the mid posts will be done like Fig 1 with NO augers.

Either of these will be fine and for rows less than 100' option 2 and 3, IMHO, are an overkill. I did option 1 on 100' rows with no anchors but I do intend to go back and put inside angle brace posts. I don't like wires on the outside of the rows. I used 9"x 10' end posts 30" deep.