Plum Wine Recipe (for critique)

[GreatNorthernLlama]

After a few mead runs to gain some basic experience, this beginner is back!
FINALLY ramping up for my plum wine, but I'm struggling to finalize a recipe and with a few basic questions. First few points that I've come to understand from reading the forums and now know:
- Add sugar in the primary to my target SG. Desire is to ferment dry, and back sweeten (targeting an initial SG of 1.095)
- shooting for an average of 6 lbs plums per gallon
- Plums are currently pitted, chopped and frozen in bags. First step will be to empty out to thaw and add 3 tsp pectic enzyme (1/10th tsp per lbs is what I've read) and macerate as it thaws before pouring the whole pulp into a brew bag as part of the must
- creating a yeast starter will be great for this
- Initial ferm bucket volume a little over 5 gallon to account for loss before racking off the lees

Knowing this, I've come up with the following recipe for a 5 gallon batch:
Stabilize must with campden and potassium sorbate of course
3 gallons water
25 lbs plums
3 tsp pectic enzyme
13 lbs sugar
Target SG 1.095

Yeast - EC118 (11g)
Nutrient - Fermaid O (13.75g divided into three rounds at 24h, 72h, and 1/3 sugar)

Process: I know press fruit, mix with water and sugar and stabilize. Same time make a yeast starter. Day 2 pitch yeast, and add nutrients.
I've got the following questions / issues with the recipe above
1- As mentioned my goal is a target SG above a flat amount of sugar. I assume I will keep the plums consistent and just adjust the amount of sugar to meet my target SG. I know this will be a lot of a kind of mad scientist mixing simple syrup and water into my must and re-checking the SG, so hope to get it pretty constant without ending up with a crazy large batch with a ton of loss
2- on that note, I used meadtools as an online calculator to estimate my batch. This calculates out to a massive 8 gallon batch with sounds crazy. Maybe someone else knows this is actually correct and I need to scale down everything?
3- Acid and Tannin - A question for later, likely post primary. I have an acid blend, as well as pure citric and tannic acid as well as tannins available to add. Looking for guidance on how one would go about introducing such additives.
4- Nutrients: I have fermaide O and DAP. Can Amazon Fermaide K. Would anyone recommend this and do a full Tosna 3.0?

Any insights appreciated.

 

[Ohio Bob]

Do NOT add sorbate now. It may completely shut down the yeast as it prevents yeast from reproducing.

I would use the calculator before going to the store to buy sugar. After that I would not rely on it. Add some syrup, check the SG, repeat. I add no water other than what’s used to make the sugar syrup. The last thing you want is an under-flavored must that will need fixing later.

I’ve had a ferment get to SG of 1.002 in 36 hours, so if I had waited until the 24 hour mark I would have missed the 1/3 sugar milestone. I suggest you stir 3-4x per day, measuring the Brix (I think that’s easier) or the SG.

For a workhorse yeast like EC1118, I don’t think it matters if you use Ferm O or K. I would use DAP if I had nothing else, it’s junk food for the yeast. Definitely add some tannin as well as oak chips, they will act as sacrifials to help prevent oxidation. They won’t add much flavor so don’t confuse them with aging tannins.

If you can get pH strips I would think that’s good enough to get your ferment going strongly. EC1118 probably doesn’t care what the pH is. Once the wine is bone dry you can back sweeten and/or acidify to taste. Taste matters more than a pH number.

 

[GreatNorthernLlama]

@ohioBob, thanks for the reply! Sorry yeah this I knew and mis typed. Only campden tablets for day 1.

Is a tosna schedule overkill then? Do you recommend just front loading nutrients and pitching with my yeast? Should I just go with ferm O (and at the amount suggested by the calculator)? Or sub some ferm O for DAP etc?

I'll pick up some oak chips tomorrow! That sounds perfect. Any recommended amount of this or tannins to add per gallon etc?

I'll probably update this thread daily with progress so the conversation about ph and adding acid will come. My pallet is a work in progress for sure though lol. I know I have a habit of overdoing it until whatever effect I'm going for is totally overdone. Ph strips might just keep me in check until I can develop a better taste

 

[Ohio Bob]

I think it’s best to use the dosage for all nutrients per the instructions on the packets. I don’t have them memorized. The sacrificial tannins/oak can be doubled/tripled without serious consequence, IMO. They are in contact for a short period of time, and will end up with the gross lees and get racked off within a few days.

I wouldn’t throw out your calculator, but I don’t think it’s neccesary. EC1118 ferments anything and your not dealing with a poor nutrient environment such as honey. Excess nutrient probably will drop out with the lees so over-dosing might not be a problem.

If you were fermenting lemon juice (high acid) or bananas (low acid) I would use pH strips to get the pH in a better range than what the raw fruit provides. Even my wild blackberries, which are really tart, don’t require any acid adjustment, just back sweetening after it’s bone dry.

 

[winemaker81]

There are numerous schools of thought regarding nutrients. I was originally taught to add all up front and let 'er rock!

However, in recent years there is sufficient evidence to indicate a staged approach is better, especially for high nutrient required strains. For anything with high needs, I add 50% more nutrient anyway -- having experienced H2S a few times, I am unanimous in believing I don't want it again (bonus points for folks that recognize that UK pop culture reference!)

Bob's point is a good one -- some of my ferments are fast enough, especially with overnight starters, that I'm past 50% depletion in 48 hours. FWK recommends Packet A (which by weight is probably 2/3 of the amount) up front and Packet C (remaining 1/3?) after 48 hours. I'm doing this rather than waiting for 1/3 depletion.

And I agree with Bob in that EC-1118 doesn't much care.

I searched for "best yeast for fruit wine" just for fun ... and the first item in the list was a WMT page from 2 years ago.

https://www.winemakingtalk.com/threads/desired-yeast-for-fruit-wines.76326/

This might give you some ideas if you want to try something else. Note that RC-212 is high nutrient, so adding more nutrient is a good idea.

 

[Raptor99]

Knowing this, I've come up with the following recipe for a 5 gallon batch:
Stabilize must with campden and potassium sorbate of course
3 gallons water
25 lbs plums
3 tsp pectic enzyme
13 lbs sugar
Target SG 1.095

There are two ways that people talk about the ratio of fruit to water. One is X lbs. of fruit added to Y gal. of water. The other is to use X lbs. of fruit and then add water until the total volume is Y gals. I use the second method.

You could start with your plums, and add however much water is needed to reach 5 gallons. If you have a 5 gallon carboy that you want to use for secondary, you need to start with more than 5 gallons initially so that you have 5 gallons left after racking off the lees. You would need 6 or 6.5 gals. initially to get 5 gals. in secondary.

But I think that 25 lbs. of plums is a very light for 6.5 gals. in primary, so if I had 25 lbs. of plums I would shoot for 4 gals. initial volume and then do secondary in a 3 gal. carboy. That would give you a much more robust plum flavor. If your goal is 6 lbs. of plums per gallon, then 6 lbs. per gallon X 4 gallons initial volume = 24 lbs. of plums.

If you add a lot of water to your fruit, your wine will taste watered down.

 

[Hazelemere]

After a few mead runs to gain some basic experience, this beginner is back!
FINALLY ramping up for my plum wine, but I'm struggling to finalize a recipe and with a few basic questions. First few points that I've come to understand from reading the forums and now know:
- Add sugar in the primary to my target SG. Desire is to ferment dry, and back sweeten (targeting an initial SG of 1.095)
- shooting for an average of 6 lbs plums per gallon
- Plums are currently pitted, chopped and frozen in bags. First step will be to empty out to thaw and add 3 tsp pectic enzyme (1/10th tsp per lbs is what I've read) and macerate as it thaws before pouring the whole pulp into a brew bag as part of the must
- creating a yeast starter will be great for this
- Initial ferm bucket volume a little over 5 gallon to account for loss before racking off the lees

Knowing this, I've come up with the following recipe for a 5 gallon batch:
Stabilize must with campden and potassium sorbate of course
3 gallons water
25 lbs plums
3 tsp pectic enzyme
13 lbs sugar
Target SG 1.095

Yeast - EC118 (11g)
Nutrient - Fermaid O (13.75g divided into three rounds at 24h, 72h, and 1/3 sugar)

Process: I know press fruit, mix with water and sugar and stabilize. Same time make a yeast starter. Day 2 pitch yeast, and add nutrients.
I've got the following questions / issues with the recipe above
1- As mentioned my goal is a target SG above a flat amount of sugar. I assume I will keep the plums consistent and just adjust the amount of sugar to meet my target SG. I know this will be a lot of a kind of mad scientist mixing simple syrup and water into my must and re-checking the SG, so hope to get it pretty constant without ending up with a crazy large batch with a ton of loss
2- on that note, I used meadtools as an online calculator to estimate my batch. This calculates out to a massive 8 gallon batch with sounds crazy. Maybe someone else knows this is actually correct and I need to scale down everything?
3- Acid and Tannin - A question for later, likely post primary. I have an acid blend, as well as pure citric and tannic acid as well as tannins available to add. Looking for guidance on how one would go about introducing such additives.
4- Nutrients: I have fermaide O and DAP. Can Amazon Fermaide K. Would anyone recommend this and do a full Tosna 3.0?

Any insights appreciated.

what variety of plum do you have?