Post a photo, any photo

Winemaking Talk - Winemaking Forum

Help Support Winemaking Talk - Winemaking Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
That's why I like my food cooked. Or as I tell folks, I like my parasites cooked, plus whatever else is in there. There are 50 some million nematodes for every human on this planet. Think about that next time you eat something. Ever been to a meat packing plant? You might give up hot dogs and baloney..

In 1998, I was part of the Ballpark Franks listeria outbreak that laid low the Southeast and killed something like 15 people in the South. I would never have known this, except I watched NBC News and they had a story that listed the number on the product. I still had the package with a few left in it in our freezer, and it was a match.

The news was saying it mostly affects old people or people in poor health. That's BS. I was 40 years old, a non-drinking bodybuilder and in great health, but ran a 104-105 fever and was ill for a little more than 3 weeks, most of that time in severe illness. I have never been so sick in my life! My gut was in constant clench. That was the worst – the constant, solid gut clench and pain. For most of the first 2 weeks, I couldn't sleep more than a few exhausted minutes at a time. Couldn't work. Most of my time was lying in bed in a fetal position.

I was misdiagnosed by my doctor, who did not provide me antibiotics, even when I asked for them. He gave me muscle ralaxers to try to unclench my gut. In desperation, after finding the package number match I went to a "doc in a box" clinic and got antibiotics.

Two things came out of that experience. First, that doctor was history! Second, I did not eat another hot dog for 26 years. I ate my first one in 2024. I have had only three since, including that one, and I will never eat a Ballpark Frank again.
 
Last edited:
In 1998, I was part of the Ballpark Franks listeria outbreak that laid low the Southeast and killed something like 15 people in the South. I would never have known this, except I watched NBC News and they had a story that listed the number on the product. I still had the package with a few left in it in our freezer, and it was a match.

The news was saying it mostly affects old people or people in poor health. That's BS. I was 40 years old, a non-drinking bodybuilder and in great health, but ran a 104-105 fever and was ill for a little more than 3 weeks, most of that time in severe illness. I have never been so sick in my life! My gut was in constant clench. That was the worst – the constant, solid gut clench and pain. For most of the first 2 weeks, I couldn't sleep more than a few exhausted minutes at a time. Couldn't work. Most of my time was lying in bed in a fetal position.

I was misdiagnosed by my doctor, who did not provide me antibiotics, even when I asked for them. He gave me muscle ralaxers to try to unclench my gut. In desperation, after finding the package number match I went to a "doc in a box" clinic and got antibiotics.

Two things came out of that experience. First, that doctor was history! Second, I did not eat another hot dog for 26 years. I ate my first one in 2024. I have had only three since, including that one, and I will never eat a Ballpark Frank again.
I get USDA recalls every day. There's always recalls for listeria and e coli in foods. It's not just ground meats like hot dogs, burgers etc. I've seen fresh vegetables, canned goods, frozen foods and just about every other food product recalled. Sihn up:

https://public.govdelivery.com/accounts/USFSIS/subscriber/new?preferences=true#tab1
 
I get USDA recalls every day. There's always recalls for listeria and e coli in foods. It's not just ground meats like hot dogs, burgers etc. I've seen fresh vegetables, canned goods, frozen foods and just about every other food product recalled. Sihn up:

https://public.govdelivery.com/accounts/USFSIS/subscriber/new?preferences=true#tab1

Yeah, that's true but it is rare where there are so many cases and deaths (and you KNOW that is a small fraction of all of them) that it rises to national TV news, and that usually happens after people are dying in sufficient numbers. It was especially true in 1998. Don't know if it still applies, but the 1998 Ballpark Franks case used to be the worst or second worst outbreak ever.

The fact that other stuff also is contaminated does not minimize my personal experience at all. First of all, there are some food processes that lend themselves more to contamination and hot dogs, sausages, bologna, souse, etc. are atop the list because of co-mingling.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Guess what? I've never had listeria again so far. Never even had a "stomach bug" since that episode.

I also have a mental list of national chain restaurants I will never eat at again because I have been served food with human hair in it. One time is all it takes for me. One of these chains, I was served food with hair in it at the location's GRAND OPENING. Now, you could say well, local health inspectors find stuff far worse than THAT. To which I say, I can only control what I can control. I also won't eat at any place with a score below 95.

One time while out with coworkers at a popular local non-chain joint, I was standing in line to place my order and a 3-inch long cockroach ran across the floor and over the top of the toe of my shoe. I ordered a Pepsi when it was my turn. Never went there again, either.
 
In 1998, I was part of the Ballpark Franks listeria outbreak ,,, I did not eat another hot dog for 26 years. I ate my first one in 2024. I have had only three since, including that one, and I will never eat a Ballpark Frank again.
Listeria does not produce a temperature stable toxin like botulism. Listeria is an infection with live organisms which produce a toxin once they are growing in your GI tract. To prevent Lysteria heat all foods to 165F internal temperature. If one got listeria from hot dogs this suggests poor heating as microwaving three on a plate and the center hot dog never got to kill temperature.

Listeria likes pH neutral environments, or at least pH above 4.0. Wines normally should be below 3.5 so they are low risk. Note things like Acetobacter grow below pH 4.0 and that is why lots of foods are vacuum packed/ beer has CO2.
Listeria requires moisture so fresh melons, soft cheeses and improperly processed hot dogs are good examples of places to get it. Factory floor drains (home sink) would be another place to find the organism.
Contamination of properly prepared food on a work surface (cutting board) or in pipes/ grinders/ equipment that aren’t effectively cleaned is a risk factor.
 
Listeria does not produce a temperature stable toxin like botulism. Listeria is an infection with live organisms which produce a toxin once they are growing in your GI tract. To prevent Lysteria heat all foods to 165F internal temperature. If one got listeria from hot dogs this suggests poor heating as microwaving three on a plate and the center hot dog never got to kill temperature.

Listeria likes pH neutral environments, or at least pH above 4.0. Wines normally should be below 3.5 so they are low risk. Note things like Acetobacter grow below pH 4.0 and that is why lots of foods are vacuum packed/ beer has CO2.
Listeria requires moisture so fresh melons, soft cheeses and improperly processed hot dogs are good examples of places to get it. Factory floor drains (home sink) would be another place to find the organism.
Contamination of properly prepared food on a work surface (cutting board) or in pipes/ grinders/ equipment that aren’t effectively cleaned is a risk factor.

The research I have seen also says that the quantity of listeria (or any pathogen) present in the food also has a great deal to do with your odds of it all being killed during cooking. At that time the counts in these hot dogs were among the highest the FDA had ever measured. Anyway, no one I know uses a thermometer to cook hot dogs. Since for 26 years I no longer eat them (except those 3 recently that I mentioned), it is no worry to me.

The FDA found that the Ballpark Franks that I ate back then were being processed on a dirty conveyor with uninsulated, open coolant transport lines above it. All along this long conveyor, mold and pathogens that grew on the condensate around those lines dripped regularly down into the co-mingled meat that was then processed into casings. Because the refrigeration system was not working correctly, the entire process was conducted at temperatures ideal for pathogen growth.

But we've learned a lot since 1998, right? Not long ago, we had the outbreak with Boar's Head, and the conditions inside that plant were horrendous. I've seen photos that were revolting. And to think people were paying more for what they thought was a premium product.

I don't eat ultra-processed meats at all anymore, as part of an effort to go back to whole foods and be rid of all the preservatives in commercial co-mingled products. Co-mingled meats offer the greatest opportunities for contamination, since they originate from many different animals and the grinding and processing can mask a lot of contaminants. At Boar's Head's Virginia plant, bugs, mold, pathogens and metal granules were common in co-mingled meat products. I have seen pix of the meat with metal in it.

Some examples from the Boar's Head plant, taken on the sly with a smart watch by a worker. The worker stated that employees would drop meat on the moldy floor, then pick it up and put it back on the line.

Filthy, moldy conveyer line used to transport raw co-mingled meat... behind the wrapper machine and on the floor are active mold colonies...

Screenshot 2025-01-26 at 9.10.50 AM.png

Glass removed from the processing conveyer area meant to be cooled and also used to shield meat from contaminants... active mold on floor...

Screenshot 2025-01-26 at 9.11.03 AM.png

Why eat that crap?
 
Last edited:
Can anyone tell me the size of vil. A woman once told me to buy a flourbin as I might have Wee vils in my flour. My eyes must be bad, I just couldn't see any.
 
Can anyone tell me the size of vil. A woman once told me to buy a flourbin as I might have Wee vils in my flour. My eyes must be bad, I just couldn't see any.

3-4 mm in length. We had them come in with contaminated flour once, and I could see them pretty easily. We put all our flour in a big bale wire jar like this.

Screenshot 2025-01-26 at 9.31.58 AM.png
 
Meh, not to worry .... people in other countries eat lots of bugs as part of their regular diet. Grasshoppers, crickets, termites, cicadas, ants, beetles and grubs. And there's that dead wiggly you see in a bottle of tequila.😊

Tequila. Ew.
 
Interesting to buy stuff online and get a surprise when the package arrives. I just received a CD from St. Saviour, Jersey – a self-governing island in the English Channel that's affiliated with the United Kingdom.

Screenshot 2025-01-26 at 10.59.39 AM.png

For illustrative purposes only, because I KNOW someone here will say it wasn't that direct. 😄

Screenshot 2025-01-26 at 10.54.55 AM.png

I gather that Jersey wasn't too happy with England in WW II... they gave it up to the Germans. Note that it is right by Guernsey ... the names of two dairy cow breeds. :)
 
I don't eat ultra-processed meats at all anymore, as part of an effort to go back to whole foods and be rid of all the preservatives in commercial co-mingled products.
Yep. Almost all of my processed meats are homemade. I grind, season, stuff and smoke most of my own meats. I find most commercial sausage tastes like seasoned tallow.
 
Back
Top