Post-fermantation ruins...What are they?

[mainshipfred]

If so, i assume you fill the carboy up to the level pointed with the red arrow...?

Yes, to there or even higher depending on the bung you are using and how far it is able to be inserted in the carboy.

BTW, I do see K-meta referred as PMS, KMS and K2S2O5.

With all the great questions you are asking I can't wait to hear about your next wine.

 

[Cynewulf]

@midilli , if you are still interested in making wine without or with minimal potassium metabisulfite, you might be interested in this thread I started a few years ago:
Adventures in Wild Fermentation
The first year I made a mistake adding a juice bucket to the grapes, but I am very happy with my 2021 and 2022 results. Both are drinking very nice without having added any sulfites. I’ve also had 5-6 year old bottles from French and Georgian winemakers who didn’t add sulfites that drank just fine. The key, as many have suggested here, is minimizing oxygen exposure after primary fermentation is complete. I suspect that my longer maceration times of 2-3 weeks and my addition of whole clusters also helps, as a lot of antioxidants are pulled out of the skins and stems. I do sometimes get a slight white film on top of a carboy. The first time I saw it, it really scared me but I no longer worry about it now; I just wipe it off when racking and haven’t noticed any negative effects. Of course, that is with a very small surface area when compared with your bucket.

 

[Jim Welch]

Yes, please Jim. Will be glad to review further details, like %10 meta k; how much gram or cl should I add?

Sorry for the delay, I've been traveling, I use this calculator to determine my wines appropriate SO2 level. I enter my wine's current SO2 level, the ph, and its abv and it tells me the SO2 level required for that particular batch and how much 10% solution (or powder if one uses that) is needed to get there.

https://winemakermag.com/resource/1301-sulfite-calculator
One doesn't necessarily need the ph and abv to use it though, for your bottles (which I'm presuming to be 750ml) I entered zero exisitng SO2 and a target of 50ppm SO2 and it returns that 0.7ml of a 10% Meta K solution in each bottle will achieve 50ppm SO2.

The page linked above has instructions on how to make this 10% solution. Hope this helps

 

[Rice_Guy]

, all i 've found is a product called as "PMS for wine stabilization" which is produced by BASF. ,,, with the one you use - K-meta.

we are sloppy on our typing. The full name is potassium metabisulphite (but in the 1950’s sodium metabisulphite was common)
If the full name of PMS is potassium metabisulphite we are the same. Your seller should give the full name, we also have technical sheets which spell out details as a white powder and level of contamination.
We have a product called potassium sorbate which frequently is called a stabilizer since it stops yeast reproduction.

 

[winemaker81]

but in the 1950’s sodium metabisulphite was common

IME NA-meta was predominant into the 90's, probably because it was a LOT less expensive.

 

[sour_grapes]

I have made a little search for K-meta over our market through the internet, all i 've found is a product called as "PMS for wine stabilization" which is produced by BASF. Hoping it is similar with the one you use - K-meta.

we are sloppy on our typing. The full name is potassium metabisulphite (but in the 1950’s sodium metabisulphite was common)
If the full name of PMS is potassium metabisulphite we are the same. Your seller should give the full name, we also have technical sheets which spell out details as a white powder and level of contamination.

I found this amusing: The chemical symbol for potassium is, of course, K. This is from the Neo-Latin term kalium. Many parts of the world still call the element kalium. In particular, that is the German term for the element.

And, of course, BASF is a giant German industrial/chemical company.

So evidently, BASF nicely translated kaliummetabisulfit (the German term) into "PMS" for us English-speaking folks. Only to cause great confusion!

And @midilli , there is at least one reason we tend to avoid using "PMS": it has a widely used other meaning here: Premenstrual syndrome - Wikipedia

 

[mainshipfred]

I found this amusing: The chemical symbol for potassium is, of course, K. This is from the Neo-Latin term kalium. Many parts of the world still call the element kalium. In particular, that is the German term for the element.

And, of course, BASF is a giant German industrial/chemical company.

So evidently, BASF nicely translated kaliummetabisulfit (the German term) into "PMS" for us English-speaking folks. Only to cause great confusion!

And @midilli , there is at least one reason we tend to avoid using "PMS": it has a widely used other meaning here: Premenstrual syndrome - Wikiped

I found this amusing: The chemical symbol for potassium is, of course, K. This is from the Neo-Latin term kalium. Many parts of the world still call the element kalium. In particular, that is the German term for the element.

And, of course, BASF is a giant German industrial/chemical company.

So evidently, BASF nicely translated kaliummetabisulfit (the German term) into "PMS" for us English-speaking folks. Only to cause great confusion!

And @midilli , there is at least one reason we tend to avoid using "PMS": it has a widely used other meaning here: Premenstrual syndrome - Wikipedia

Your Googliness is off the charts!

https://www.google.com/search?q=goo...ate=ive&vld=cid:77084c63,vid:eGKNdqvnxPQ,st:0

 

[midilli]

If you haven't already, read through the post I mentioned in my first reply.

I need to review my post, and may expand some descriptions as it may not be explicit enough.

Just cast an eye, not yet fully reviewed but i have bookmarked your page and will definetly take a time to read it carefully. Again thanks a lot. For any question about your recipe, should i use this forum?

 

[sour_grapes]

Your Googliness is off the charts!

https://www.google.com/search?q=goo...ate=ive&vld=cid:77084c63,vid:eGKNdqvnxPQ,st:0

I did "check my work," but, In fairness to me, I already knew everything in the paragraph that I wrote except "neo-Latin."

 

[mainshipfred]

I did "check my work," but, In fairness to me, I already knew everything in the paragraph that I wrote except "neo-Latin."

I figured as much but a different response wouldn't be as much fun.

 

[winemaker81]

Just cast an eye, not yet fully reviewed but i have bookmarked your page and will definetly take a time to read it carefully. Again thanks a lot. For any question about your recipe, should i use this forum?

Yes, post here. The goal of my posts is to provide a clear explanation of various winemaking points. Anything to make them better is good.

 

[midilli]

With all the great questions you are asking I can't wait to hear about your next wine.

I will keep this forum updated...Much appreciated

We have a product called potassium sorbate which frequently is called a stabilizer since it stops yeast reproduction.

Eventually, i should feel at ease since the product called as "potassium metabisulfite" which i will buy and it won't break up the fermentation process...Right?

And @midilli , there is at least one reason we tend to avoid using "PMS": it has a widely used other meaning here: Premenstrual syndrome - Wikipedia

=))) Never heard of it before. Let's call that as common ground of a wine and a woman

 

[midilli]

@midilli , if you are still interested in making wine without or with minimal potassium metabisulfite, you might be interested in this thread I started a few years ago:
Adventures in Wild Fermentation

I have checked and seen interesting ideas...I will keep reading the entire thread. Thank you very much for sharing!

Yes, post here. The goal of my posts is to provide a clear explanation of various winemaking points. Anything to make them better is good.

This may be "a lazy man's question" and sorry if it is so (should have googled before asking); as you use k-meta for the stabilization and preventing oxidation, why do wine producers use sulphur dioxide?

 

[winemaker81]

This may be "a lazy man's question" and sorry if it is so (should have googled before asking); as you use k-meta for the stabilization and preventing oxidation, why do wine producers use sulphur dioxide?

K-meta dissolves in wine and produces free SO2, which is sulfur dioxide. Commercial wineries are probably using K-meta.

Note on "stabilization" -- this term is used to indicate the wine has been treated so that there will not be a renewed fermentation in the bottle when the wine contains sugar.

The most common way for home winemakers to do this is to add potassium sorbate + K-meta. K-meta on it's own does not stabilize the wine. It helps sorbate do the job.

Another way is to add a spirit (high ABV liquor) to increase the ABV above the level the yeast can survive. I constructed a Port last year by added EverClear (151 proof grain alcohol) to a 1 year old red wine, and backsweetening.

Commercial wineries may sterile filter the wine to remove all yeast.

 

[midilli]

Further to above recommendations about glass carboy for fermentation, i just wanted to know if there is anything to pay attention on selection of carboy type...Which of the attached ones would you prefer? Or, no difference?

 

[Rice_Guy]

I will always use a carboy which is close to the product volume no matter to the shape. If the volume is hue same I would use the top photo with more neck (ullage) in preference to a carboy with a very sharp / fast ullage.

The US is limited in readily available sizes. To find an 8 or 10 liter I am getting PET with a 120mm mouth. I would use a 45 or 50 mm if I could find it in glass.

 

[ChuckD]

it helps to have many sizes of glass containers on hand to match volumes and reduce the need for topping up with commercial wine. I still gather half and full gallon jugs whenever I find them.

All else being equal I like the carboys with a longer neck and smooth transition. They make it easy to reduce headspace and are easier to clean.

 

[midilli]

I will always use a carboy which is close to the product volume no matter to the shape. If the volume is hue same I would use the top photo with more neck (ullage) in preference to a carboy with a very sharp / fast ullage.

The US is limited in readily available sizes. To find an 8 or 10 liter I am getting PET with a 120mm mouth. I would use a 45 or 50 mm if I could find it in glass.

It's easy to find small glass carboys in TR, like 2lt, 4lt, 5lt.
Larger than 5lt carboys are also available in volumes that increase in multiples of five up to 55lt.

it helps to have many sizes of glass containers on hand to match volumes and reduce the need for topping up with commercial wine. I still gather half and full gallon jugs whenever I find them.

All else being equal I like the carboys with a longer neck and smooth transition. They make it easy to reduce headspace and are easier to clean.

I was thinking in exactly the same way and just bought several carboys with different volumes as 4-10-15-20-25lt.