potential problem

[laxmaster1]

cab sauv grape sg after crushing was 1.100....grapes were crushed on the 17th (last monday-10 days ago and have been open fermenting in big blue barrels since............................after about 3 days gravity was arouond 1.06............right now, gravity is 1.0000000000 and been at 1.0000 for about 2 or 3 days now...................fermentation has definitely slowed a lot but i can tell it is still active, esp. when I punch down the cap................I use an inexpensive hydrometer, one every home winemaker probably started with.......

is this normal progress, and if so, about how much longer to dryness??? I wanted to press this weekend but not sure if I should wait until early next week---if I press now, will what fermentation is still ongoing stop from the pressing? fyi must is pretty dry to the taste .....
thx, paul

 

[robie]

If you have an inexpensive hydrometer I am wondering how you can have an accuracy of 1.00000000?

Let me address some of the things you said. This is a learning experience and what you pick up now will help you greatly down the road.

Just because you see lots of activity when you do a push down doesn't in any way mean fermentation is still going on. Until that wine is pressed and possibly for several days afterward, CO2 can still blow off making it look like fermentation is ongoing. Your only surefire method for determining fermentation is done is with that hydrometer.

If the wine truly is at 1.000 and has been there 2 or 3 days, the fermentation, for the most part is finished. Just make sure you are reading the hydrometer correctly. If you do press it, it might take off fermenting again and drop maybe another .002 to .004, but I doubt it.

The act of pressing does not cause fermentation to stop.
Sounds like it is already time to press. I would do it today. I would leave the pressed wine in a carboy for 3 or 4 days under an air lock to determine if the SG might drop some more. If it doesn't, it is time for stabilizing with sulfites, then onto clearing, oaking and any final adjustments, which you may need.

Do you intend to do a malolactic fermentation (mlf)?

 

[laxmaster1]

robie, thx for the informative reply.........I guess the hydrometer is acurate as I checked it in water and it reads 1.0000000000 as it should, I guess Im just skeptical of the readings (and skeptical of the user)

I do plan on adding malo right after I press-I use mlf from white labs in liquid form, so I basically wait for it to acclimatize and add it directly to the juice after pressing....Ive been told on this forum it is safe to do so as the malo will use the gross lees as a form of a fertilizer and by the time i rack after 3-4 days the malo should be well off......

I plan on pressing tomorrow............. Thx, Paul

 

[robie]

For the MLB to work well, make sure your temperature is within the safe zone for the MLB. Actually, I think it starts better if the temp is closer to the higher end of the zone. The temperature usually turns out to be very important.

Also make sure your acid and PH levels are within the levels the MLB can handle.

If you ever worry about the wine setting on the gross lees to long, you can always purchase an MLB nutrient for next time. I prefer the nutrient, myself, but that's just one opinion.

Be sure to protect the wine all during MLF, as the SO2 levels are likely very low. Did you buy a chromatography kit to monitor MLF?

Good luck and let us know how it all turns out.

 

[bob1]

so do you press and start a malo with the abv that high? I thought you needed to go earlier for that?

 

[robie]

so do you press and start a malo with the abv that high? I thought you needed to go earlier for that?

Good point. I forgot to mention alcohol level along with temperature, PH and TA as being important. Thanks for the reminder.

Depends on the alcohol level and the tolerance for alcohol of the MLB. A wine like Zin can be very high ABV. One has to either buy an MLB with a higher alcohol tolerance or start MLF earlier. Both are what I would recommend, but LAXMaster's wine is already dry.

 

[laxmaster1]

please tell me if im wrong but i thought traditionally you didnt start mlf until alcoholic fermentation was complete---and i thought thats how it got the name commonly used, even though not completely accurtate, of "secondary fermentation"

 

[robie]

please tell me if im wrong but i thought traditionally you didnt start mlf until alcoholic fermentation was complete---and i thought thats how it got the name commonly used, even though not completely accurtate, of "secondary fermentation"

You are a little wrong. Most start MLF after alcohol fermentation, but not always. Some like more of the buttery taste, some like more complete MLF than others. It is very variable. I believe one gets less of the buttery flavor if MLF is started during alcohol fermentation. Alcohol fermentation reduces the buttery results of MLF. Most reds do better with less of that taste, while a Chardonnay mostly does best with more of it. So reds' MLF is many times started during alcohol fermentation and whites is stared afterward.
It is not likely you will be able to tell the difference.

In traditional, non-home wine making cycles, primary fermentation is the alcohol fermentation, secondary fermentation is considered malolactic fermentation. It gets confusing for home wine makers, when we refer to primary fermentation as being that which takes place in the bucket and secondary as the final stage of alcohol fermentation, which takes place later in the carboy. Ugh!

 

[laxmaster1]

but basically its not wrong to wait until alc fermentation is complete to start mlf??????????? its not like the alcohol in my wine is so high that its going to prevent the mlf from getting going...................?

 

[robie]

but basically its not wrong to wait until alc fermentation is complete to start mlf??????????? its not like the alcohol in my wine is so high that its going to prevent the mlf from getting going...................?

Since your starting SG was 1.100, you should be OK with a typical MLB, so don't worry.

Had it been a huge Zin at 16% ABV, it would have been another thing. The MLB can be very picky. Take a look at the specs for the MLB you are using and you will see it has several important ranges for free SO2, temperature, ABV, and PH.

Next time you do a Cab, something you can consider is starting your MLF about 1/2 to 2/3 through the alcohol fermentation. Again, it does depend on the MLB you choose. This will result in less butteriness. Butteriness in a Cab sounds good, but it is not normally considered desirable.

This time? As I said earlier, you likely won't be able to tell the difference as it is a very, very minor issue.

 

[whackfol]

laxmaster, waiting until after AF to start MLF is my preferred method. There are those who co-ferment and those who start near the end - all is acceptable and even suggested by some ML manufacturers. On the flip side the ML culture [can] compete for the same nutrients as the yeast and [can] actually complete MLF before the AF ends. I ferment dry, settle my wine a day or so after pressing and then rack to my barrels. Once I verify dryness with a Clinitest tablet, I add one packet of ML bacteria to a barrel - simple. Of more concern is the tolerances of your ML culture. Your abv will be within the range. Similarly your SO2 should be fine so long as you don't add more. But you should check the pH and TA. Unless your CS grapes are grown in a cool climate or picked early, I doubt you will have a concern with pH or TA. Don't sweat it, you are fine. I suggest pressing and getting the wine under an airlock as soon as you see the end of bubbling or the cap drops -earlier is fine. That's the time when the level of CO2 which protected the wine during fermentation drops and you start to expose the wine to oxygen and potentially bad bacteria.

Edit Add: I would let the wine settle a day and get it off the gross lees before adding my ML culture. Threre will be plenty of fine lees to provide nutrition to the culture. It's fine to stir the lees up every week or so.

FWIW, once the hydrometer gets to 1.0-ish, the reading is useless for anything but to note a change. This includes IMHO trying to measure ABV as the range the six or seven methods I have seen to calculate abv encompass a range much larger than the predictability of the small change you see below 1 or down to -.5 on a Brix hydrometer. Get a Clinitest tablet to test for residual sugar/dryness.

Cheers,
Whack