WineXpert Primary vs Secondary

[oasisbliss]

I am starting to do wine kits have been brewing beer all grain for a long time....
So my question is when I first do the wine in the primary the kit says to do that for about 5-7 days then go to secondary.... With my first wine kit, like I have done with beer, I let the wine ride in the Primary for 14 days to completely ferment. Then I did a secondary with the finings and sulfites/sorbate. I then let that sit for 14 days and then bottle assuming it is nice and clear. Is my way ok, or should I do the secondary like the kit says. I guess I just don't see the benefit in the secondary then to tertiary like the kit states to do, when I can basically do the 2 steps in 1 step with the 14 day primary....

Thanks for input.

 

[sour_grapes]

The concern is that your wine will suffer oxidation in the latter stages of the time in the primary fermentation bucket. Since it is a bucket with a wide opening, there is a lot of area that is in contact with air.

I cannot honestly tell you if the 14 days is too long. Perhaps you will be able to tell us after you have done the experiment!

 

[SouthernChemist]

Your instincts and experience are not leading you in the wrong direction. Oxidation is not truly a concern at this stage of the game unless you handle your wine rather inappropriately. The environment of the wine is rather reductive at this point (more so than in beer, in fact). I routinely ferment my wines completely in the primary bucket, and I can tell you that 14 days in the primary is not too long. For most of the active part of fermentation you can leave the primary merely covered but not closed off. Once it is close to finishing, though, I find it best to snap the lid down, fit an airlock, and let the yeast finish their job.

 

[bkisel]

Your instincts and experience are not leading you in the wrong direction. Oxidation is not truly a concern at this stage of the game unless you handle your wine rather inappropriately. The environment of the wine is rather reductive at this point (more so than in beer, in fact). I routinely ferment my wines completely in the primary bucket, and I can tell you that 14 days in the primary is not too long. For most of the active part of fermentation you can leave the primary merely covered but not closed off. Once it is close to finishing, though, I find it best to snap the lid down, fit an airlock, and let the yeast finish their job.

I'll often but not always ferment to dry in the primary bucket but like in the post I quote I'll lock the lid down and add an air lock @ SG 1.020-1.000. I think of "secondary" fermentation as the fermentation left to be done after adding an air lock whether finishing in the primary or transferring to a carboy for "secondary" fermentation.

EDIT: Welcome to the forum!

 

[Julie]

Like others, I ferment dry in the primary, around 1.010 I snap the lid down and add an airlock. And for the record there is no such thing as a secondary fermentation. Whether or not your wine is done fermenting in the primary you rack to a "secondary" vessel, which is normally a carboy.

And welcome to winemakingtalk.

 

[oasisbliss]

Perfect - thanks to all. Sounds like am good to go.

 

[seth8530]

Like others, I ferment dry in the primary, around 1.010 I snap the lid down and add an airlock. And for the record there is no such thing as a secondary fermentation. Whether or not your wine is done fermenting in the primary you rack to a "secondary" vessel, which is normally a carboy.

And welcome to winemakingtalk.

Not to be a nitpicker but I would say I agree with one caveat. People sometimes refer to MLF as a "secondary" fermentation. Other than that I completely concur with everything everyone has said in this thread.

 

[Julie]

Not to be a nitpicker but I would say I agree with one caveat. People sometimes refer to MLF as a "secondary" fermentation. Other than that I completely concur with everything everyone has said in this thread.

lol, I actually had that then decided to delete it.

 

[SouthernChemist]

Not to be a nitpicker but I would say I agree with one caveat. People sometimes refer to MLF as a "secondary" fermentation. Other than that I completely concur with everything everyone has said in this thread.

Personally, I think we'd be better off without the term 'secondary fermentation' because it's misleading and confusing to people in the home winemaking field, at least. At least with MLF, though, it is a completely separate fermentation.

 

[seth8530]

Personally, I think we'd be better off without the term 'secondary fermentation' because it's misleading and confusing to people in the home winemaking field, at least. At least with MLF, though, it is a completely separate fermentation.

True, in my own speech I do not refer to secondary fermentation. I call it MLF. However, I think it is definitely good to know the term secondary fermentation just in case someone else uses it.

 

[seth8530]

Personally, I think we'd be better off without the term 'secondary fermentation' because it's misleading and confusing to people in the home winemaking field, at least. At least with MLF, though, it is a completely separate fermentation.

True, in my own speech I do not refer to secondary fermentation. I call it MLF. However, I think it is definitely good to know the term secondary fermentation just in case someone else uses it.

 

[whackfol]

It is confusing. How about calling it what is: "alcoholic fermentation" and "malolactic fermentation"?

Primary and secondary mean container changes to some and alc and mlb to others.

 

[Elmer]

I am starting to do wine kits have been brewing beer all grain for a long time....
So my question is when I first do the wine in the primary the kit says to do that for about 5-7 days then go to secondary.... With my first wine kit, like I have done with beer, I let the wine ride in the Primary for 14 days to completely ferment. Then I did a secondary with the finings and sulfites/sorbate. I then let that sit for 14 days and then bottle assuming it is nice and clear. Is my way ok, or should I do the secondary like the kit says. I guess I just don't see the benefit in the secondary then to tertiary like the kit states to do, when I can basically do the 2 steps in 1 step with the 14 day primary....

Thanks for input.

With my last 4 or 5 WE kits, I have always tranfered to a Carboy for "secondary" around SG 1.020 to 1.000 (depending on my schedule and time).

I have as of lately, been combining steps 2 & 3 after 2ndary.

Since the WE has been indicating to leave the sediment in the carboy rack and then clarify,

but that is me!

 

[Thig]

I tried to straighten this out over a year ago and it is pretty much ignored. Going from the primary bucket to the carboy is just a continuation of the same fermentation,it does not create a second fermentation. The only second fermentation you could possibly have is if you put it through MLF.

 

[Julie]

Thig, I remember that. I just don't understand how this ever got started.

 

[Dugger]

This subject, like many others in winemaking, gets repeated every couple of years as new members join and new groups of core contributors emerge. It's just one of the things that make this a great forum.
Primary and Secondary have been used as easy and convenient terms to describe stages of winemaking for a long time and seem to work well so I don't see them changing.

 

[whackfol]

Dugger, You're probably correct that it won't change. It appears Thig pushed this a year ago. No one has a problem offering advice and correcting what they feel is improper technique on the site. Why can't we do the same for nomenclature? Specificity would help with questions and answers. When someone says their wine is in secondary are they talking about a container or MLF?.................It might just be wishful thinking.

 

[Dugger]

This discussion usually takes place concerning kit wines and thus MLF is not a consideration and if someone is contemplating doing MLF on a wine, they probably already know the difference.
I suspect the confusion is because kit wines come with instructions and these instructions talk about the primary and secondary phases of the process. Primary and secondary refer to the containers in which that part of the fermentation takes place and at one time, I think, all kits advocated the primary and secondary phases of fermentation. Now many kits advocate complete fermentation in the primary bucket and perhaps don't mention secondary at all and this, I believe, is what leads to some of the confusion. Some instructions actually use the terms primary fermentation and secondary fermentation and although these are intended to simply identify the stage and appropriate container for that stage, they could lead someone new to winemaking/kit instructions to think they are actually two separate fermentations.
Primary and Secondary are very convenient terms for home winemakers to use to tell someone else what stage they are at in the process, particularly kit wine makers. There may be a better way to do this but so far it seems to have eluded us.

 

[keithww]

I often get secondary fermentation, I added PB2 and coco power to a beer after it was dry and fermentation kicked back up, I added blueberry concentrate to a blueberry wine after it was dry and moved to a carboy, that was secondary fermentation. That said, with out adding additional sugars you will just have a continuation of the first fermentation. The place where this is an issue is if you make a late addition and have a your second fermentation in the bottles. I always give it a couple of weeks with beer, and a month with wine just to make sure.

 

[wineh]

As a relative beginner, I can't imagine why you wouldn't just follow the instructions. Most wine kit manufacturers will guarantee your results, but only if you follow the instructions.