WineXpert Private reserve (etc)

[joeswine]

Although my intent was to float the SG where I wanted it to be by adding water and using the hydrometer as my guide.
What it was doing also was allowing the concentration to remain with out over thinning it out.
I deluted upward to a point.
They concentrated downward more than normal increasing the density This allowed them to add water with out decreasing flavor.
We'll see, they still say to add water to a 6 gallon Mark, I'll let my hydrometer be my guide as always.
If they correct they've we're able to decrease the volume and still keep the depth of the product , chemistry.
When you make wine from grapes you concentrate down, when you make wine from kits you add water and concentrate down .
It's all about the base.
Everyone makes wine in their own way .
In the past , when I talked about higher ABV. Wines moving forward people in this forum , thought I was nuts.
When I talked about making cheap wine kits my way , they tried to remove me .
Now the manufacturers are making the same with less ( less is more) it's all about concepts,ideas and follow through.

 

[Old Corker]

I have two of these PR kits going now. Amarone just went to bulk aging on 7/16. Did not add the 30g of French oak that came with it yet. Going to wait until I rack again.
Started the Marlborough Pinot Noir on 7/14. Did full 6g but added 1c Zante Currants. No skins in kit but had two yeasts. After reading this forum I only pitched RC212 and planned to hold the EC1118 until needed. I don’t think I’ll need it. Day 1 SG = 1.092 And probably actually higher. Day 3 SG = 1.070 w/good foaming. Day 5 (today) = 1.015 at 75F so I racked into carboy. Still churning away.

 

[Swedeman]

I used to make that one. I liked it because it was un-oaked. I wonder if it would be the same if I just left the oak out, or if it's completely different?

The Sonoma Dry creek Valley Chard from the Eclipse range did not contain oak. When and if I do it again, then I would leave the oak out.

 

[Swedeman]

Although my intent was to float the SG where I wanted it to be by adding water and using the hydrometer as my guide.
What it was doing also was allowing the concentration to remain with out over thinning it out.
I deluted upward to a point.

I don't understand this, if you dilute both concentrates to the same SG, they will both have the same volume in the end,

It's simple math, an example:
Concentrate A: 1 liter with concentration 4
Concentrate B: 2 liter with concentration 2

If you want to dilute them to concentration "1", then you need to add 3 liter to "A" and 2 liter to "B". Both will be 4 liter with concentration "1".

So yes, "A" will be more thinned out, as in more water added, but that doesn't really matter, it's only the final concentration (the SG) that matters.

 

[joeswine]

It all matters, as you thin out the base you thin out the structure, thin out the structure you end up with no nose, no taste just color and acholo.
And if you read these threads through this forum that's the common problem.
Look this is my therory , I understand just what their trying to get done with the smaller volume, they say they can achieve the same taste level with less juice, do they concentrated it more, probably throw cold actraction, 1 bag juice 2gallons of water that's there plan
Will see and then the fpac.
If your given to yeast use them, there , there for a reason,once again to add structure and to power through the fermentation.
It helps if you take the time and go on a yeast site to understand what the yeast that your given accually provides to the mix ,that way one can understand what and how the manufacturer is trying to accomplish overall.
Not everything is math, something's take skills and abilities .

 

[joeswine]

Old corker what was you starting SG?

 

[Old Corker]

Old corker what was you starting SG?

Starting SG was 1.092 but the currants had only been in the must a short time when I measured it before pitching the RC212. It progressed very quickly and was at 1.015 on day 5. I thought I had done something wrong so measured it again with two different hydrometers before racking into carboy. Question: Should I be concerned that it was only on the oak chips for 5 days?

 

[joeswine]

Why should you be concerned ?
You can reapply them in the secondary if you like just transfer with the wine.

 

[Old Corker]

Why should you be concerned ?

Not sure if I should be. I’m worried that the oak was intended to provide necessary tannins but there wasn’t enough time to extract them. There was fervent fermentation for those 5 days though.

I’ve been reading. Can you tell?

You can reapply them in the secondary if you like just transfer with the wine.

Too late for that. I dropped some oak cubes intended for another kit so we’ll see.

 

[cmason1957]

Not sure if I should be. I’m worried that the oak was intended to provide necessary tannins but there wasn’t enough time to extract them. There was fervent fermentation for those 5 days though.

I’ve been reading. Can you tell?

Reading seldom hurt anyone. 5 days is plenty of time for oak chips to give up what they have.

 

[wineh]

So I did a 90 day process on a private reserve stag's leap merlot. Upon bottling, I have to agree that it tastes as good or better than the eclipse version at the same point.
There are a few other considerations, including lower sg before fermentation, and the potential for longevity of the wine, but it is a good start.

 

[hounddawg]

So Winexpert has rebranded, renamed and re-sized its kits and retailers are claiming they are better. While I think they are too new to know for sure, I think I want to be from Missouri on this one.
I'm struggling with the fact that the kits are smaller, which obviously costs less to package and to ship, while the price actually went up. So is this remake simply an excersise in improving profit margin, or did someone actually find a way to make a better product in a smaller box?
I'm thinking I'll switch to RJS for now and wait for feedback from the experts here.

yep. i called resse's about the new smaller resses peanut butter cups, but i way wising in the wind, that seems to be the new trend straight across the board, smaller product , higher prices,,,,
Dawg

 

[joeswine]

I just bottle WE, double pino noir,
Ok I know it's young.
Mouth feels light, disappointed.
Taste not overwhelming.
Hopefully these blips will change overtime.

 

[Spahill]

Hi all, first post .
I have just bottled (demijohns & bottles) a Private Reserve Amarone, and was looking for others experiences with the new recipe.
I'm used to drinking it young, very young and the previous version was always my favourite.
This new one is nothing like the old version.
The old one didn't start with much, then the flavour kicked in and it went on & on & on, seeming to coat the mouth with no noticeable change at the end, just a slow vanishing.
The new version kicks in with a sharpness, has no middle and then ends with several possible flavours arguing briefly before leaving the tongue thinking "where did that go".

I prefer the pacific Le19, that I still have and I didn't think that was a patch on the old Amarone.

Sorry to be a party pooper with my first post, just have to hope it improves with age, though where that middle will come from I do not know.

Edit:- Was thinking further and remembered it came with 2 different yeast varieties.
Could this explain the two distinct taste sensations?

 

[Handy Turnip]

So I did a 90 day process on a private reserve stag's leap merlot. Upon bottling, I have to agree that it tastes as good or better than the eclipse version at the same point.
There are a few other considerations, including lower sg before fermentation, and the potential for longevity of the wine, but it is a good start.

I bottled the WE NZ Marlborough SB private reserve just before Christmas and it was much better than the Eclipse version i did the year before - i did a tweak on the yeast which would definitely benefited the later batch, but it's still given me a huge amount of confidence in the new kits.

 

[Darkroom]

Received an email from an RJS merchant. It seems RJS is doing a brand refresh. From the image in the email the largest kit I see is 14L

 

[JBMeteo]

Have been doing kits for 8+ years including many Eclipse. Did the new 14L Marlborough SB and the Dry Creek Chardonnay in November. SG on both was low relative to the old Eclipse kits (i.e., new at 1.084 and 1.082 versus the old Eclipse usually about 1.094), but otherwise good. Final gravity dry as usual, so just a little less ABV. Taste on both is very good (yes, pleasantly surprised!). This is fine for the lighter wines, but reds may be more problematic. In any event, since RJS is doing the same, there is no alternative with kits.

 

[Tipsy]

I talked to the owner of a small wine store the other day about this and he said he agreed with the move by wine xpert. He said the kits come with grape juice, concentrate and water so they are removing some of the water they add and leaving it up to us to add it. I know they added water to the kits before but they dont say how much and they dont say that is all they removed. I am also sceptical but I guess time will tell.

 

[wineh]

I talked to the owner of a small wine store the other day about this and he said he agreed with the move by wine xpert. He said the kits come with grape juice, concentrate and water so they are removing some of the water they add and leaving it up to us to add it. I know they added water to the kits before but they dont say how much and they dont say that is all they removed. I am also sceptical but I guess time will tell.

So what he is suggesting is that kit manufacturers start with grapes , make it into juice, vacuum concentrate some of it, flash pasturize some more, then add back some of the water they removed? That doesn't make sense to me.
I have seen an off brand (23l) juice in pail product that was inexpensive and upon closer inspection, it was just a 4 week kit which had been pre-diluted to appear to be a high end kit.

 

[pillswoj]

So what he is suggesting is that kit manufacturers start with grapes , make it into juice, vacuum concentrate some of it, flash pasturize some more, then add back some of the water they removed? That doesn't make sense to me.
I have seen an off brand (23l) juice in pail product that was inexpensive and upon closer inspection, it was just a 4 week kit which had been pre-diluted to appear to be a high end kit.

More like the manufacturer makes/buys several concentrates and also buys fresh juice. They combine these in differing ratios depending on the quality of the kit there is also water involved to rinse the lines etc. Winexpert / vineco claims to have been able to reduce the process water on the concentrate side but the math does not work out. I worked it out on the RJS thread and it is no different for WE.