Protein haze in red wine

[kuziwk]

Hi Guys,

I started a borolo and a WashingtonCabernet Sauvignon juice bucket about 10 months ago and both are not clearing. I typically bottle around the one year mark. Respective Grapes to the buckets were used and I squeezed them pretty good after which is likely why I’m having this issue. Bentonite was used during primary, I prefer not to use clearing agents but it looks like I don’t have a choice as it won’t clear on its own. Should I use chitin or kleisesol...or both? I would think kleisesol would be best as it has a negative charge so it should just pull out the proteins and not tannins which are also negative. I certainly don’t want to strip anything out of the wine.

 

[dmw_chef]

If you used bentonite in primary, I'd be surprised if its a protein haze. In any event, bentonite is negatively charged, so using another negatively charged fining agent would probably be less productive.

Sparkalloid has a strong positive charge and is very gentle. Sadly it has been discontinued. If you can get that I highly recommend it. Something like chitosan, positively charged, might be a good place to start. It is difficult to find on its own (i.e., not as a component of DualFine). I am starting trials with isinglass based products as an alternative to sparkalloid (at least in the context of various styles of mead), but can't yet provide a personal recommendation as I haven't done A/B trials yet.

Ultimately, if you are worried about a fining agent stripping properties from your wine, it is important to do a bench trial, so that you can identify the smallest dose that will have the clarifying impact you desire.

 

[VinesnBines]

This should be helpful:
https://www.winemakersdepot.com/Fining-Agents-Cheat-Sheet-W148.aspx

 

[sour_grapes]

This should be helpful:
https://www.winemakersdepot.com/Fining-Agents-Cheat-Sheet-W148.aspx

That is an excellent resource! Thanks.

 

[winemaker81]

This should be helpful:
https://www.winemakersdepot.com/Fining-Agents-Cheat-Sheet-W148.aspx

bookmarked!

Should I use chitin or kleisesol...or both?

I'd hit it with pectic enzyme first. Sure, the wine should not need it, but it won't hurt and then you have eliminated that possibility. Since you used bentonite, protein seems less likely, and pectin is the next thing I suspect. At 10 months CO2 should not be an issue, although you can stir a bit to see if it foams.

Then use kieselsol and chitosan. They appear to have the least negative effects on wine, and work amazingly well.

 

[kuziwk]

bookmarked!


I'd hit it with pectic enzyme first. Sure, the wine should not need it, but it won't hurt and then you have eliminated that possibility. Since you used bentonite, protein seems less likely, and pectin is the next thing I suspect. At 10 months CO2 should not be an issue, although you can stir a bit to see if it foams.

Then use kieselsol and chitosan. They appear to have the least negative effects on wine, and work amazingly well.

I have tons of chitosan and kieselsol kicking around from all my kits, I just threw out a whole bunch as I never use them. So use both instead of just one?

 

[dmw_chef]

chitosan and kieselsol are oppositely charged fining agents, so they're most effective if used together

 

[sour_grapes]

chitosan and kieselsol are oppositely charged fining agents, so they're most effective if used together

Agreed, but not RIGHT AT the same time. (You probably are aware of that, but your post could mislead a newbie.) I have seen recommendations for 1 hour apart to 24 hours apart.

 

[dmw_chef]

Day apart is the general recommendation. But yes, good point.

 

[franc1969]

You can indeed buy chitosan and keiselsol separately in quart or liter bottles at any of the usual homebrew shops, and amazon. Not my local in-person, they never have anything LDCarlson doesn't package/wholesale. For what it's worth, I found 'chitosan liter' had many results on Google just now. You need to extrapolate usage from packet quantities, or I assume the instructions would help.
I had not heard of Sparkalloid being discontinued, but never used it. Is it no longer made at all?

 

[dmw_chef]

Nope. Scott labs discontinued it because of the dangers of using diatomacious earth. Which is a real shame, because it is one of the few positively charged fining agents that is both gentle and available in homebrew quantities. Chitosan and keiselsol on their own can be remarkably difficult to find; morewine doesn't carry any of it, and most home brewers will balk at spending $60 on more of them they'll ever use, especially people starting out who are doing 1-3 gallon batches (common in mead, less so in Wine, especially since Alexander's Sun Country concentrates were discontinued) for whom a DualFine packet may overfine.

I've got a lb of sparkolloid so I'm set for awhile, especially since I almost never have to fine beyond bentonite in primary, but I'll be doing some trials with isinglass so I can make experience backed recommendations for folks that can't get it anymore.

 

[franc1969]

Huh. I wonder about that, I know people who use diatomaceous earth frequently, including adding to livestock feed. Are Canadians getting more cautious, or is it only for winemakers? Most of the mail order places still have it in stock, I guess selling through.
I see chitosan and keiselsol for sale in several places I usually shop, but not MoreWine, no. Even LabelPeelers has it though.

 

[dmw_chef]

Apparently there has been a wine industry shift away from products containing DE. Apparently there are risks associated with inhaling it.