Questions from a Newbie

[Mango Madness]

I've made about 7 mango wines now in 250L wheelie bins. After joining this forum I'm in wonderment at how there was anything consumable, let alone palatable wine made... Which leads me to my first question.

3 years back I pulled off a batch at a friends place but had to bottle it early due to him going away on holidays. I used 25kg of sugar with 50kg of mangoes and 250L of water. Chucked the mangoes in with seeds intact like I always do. The mangoes were picked up ripe off the ground which I'm beginning to suspect is better than buying them picked from the tree. Chucked in the mangoes, 12.5kg of sugar. Covered with boiling water and stirred then topped up with water. Stirred for a week. Bottled after 2 weeks. No degassing or any fancy stuff lol Now my question is this...

a) How did I fluke making a mango champagne? I did not add sugar to the bottles.

b) Sugar in the bottles is another way of making champagne isn't it?

Now the wine I'm currently "Crafting."
c) Is that how you say it?),

is a watermelon and strawberry wine which I would love to partly convert to champagne in some bottles.
d) Is it possible to do some bottles as wine and some as champagne?

Finally... I'd never used a hydrometer until I found out about it in this forum. Then I watched a video on youtube saying it should be on the "80" mark but when I looked, mine read in at 60. By this time it was bubbling at a rate of one bubble every two minutes but I had erred on the side of caution this time and added 10kg of dextrose instead of 12.5kg for the 50L batch.

e) If the recipe says to add sugar, is there any difference in portion size if it's white sugar or dextrose?

Because of the low hydrometre reading I added another Kilo of sugar and it bubbled again for another 12 hours and I just added another half a kilo to kick it over again.
f) Is it ok to keep adding sugar a bit at a time>

Thanks in advance for any assistance. You guys are amazing. I subscribed to show my support as we all should right?

 

[Ohio Bob]

Wow, and kudos for being an explorer!
a) probably leftover CO2 from fermentation, your lucky you didn’t have exploding bottles.
b) yes, but also through forced carbonation, search for that phrase. This might be an advanced course for a newbie, but as we’ve seen, you’re not one to avoid a challenge.
c) yes, or fermenting.
d) yes
e) will need someone else to answer, I don’t know.
f) but you need to monitor the SG and possibly add nutrients, additionally things could go wrong (fermentation stops, called a stuck fermentation, which leads to spoilage). That’s in addition to possibly exploding bottles, that’s why champagne bottles are thicker. I’ve not done champagne so there’s probably way more to it then what I’ve written. At least it’s enough to get you started with some search terms.

We should call you Mango the Adventurer!

 

[Rice_Guy]

mango will continue to ripen after it is picked. Example:
Store; , , , , SGrav 1.064/ pH 4.2/ TA 0.26%
& 1 week; , SGrav 1.086/ pH 4.26/ TA 0.08% , , , , roughly 24% sugar
For normal wine ripe/ ground ripe is a poor acid! This translates to increased spoilage risk.

What you made; 25kg sugar and 50Kg mango at 24% sugar makes 37Kg fermentable
Your batch is maybe 300Kg liquid and 25Kg pulp ie 12.3% sugars which could make 5.4% alcohol. >…> you made a cider or beer. To get into the wine area the beverage is usually formulated in the 23 to 33% fermentable (potential alcohol).

e) If the recipe says to add sugar, is there any difference in portion size if it's white sugar or dextrose
There is enough variation in different types of fruit and what is fermentable sugar vs flavor solids that we ignore any difference as sucrose/ glucose/ dextrose.

I think I missed acid addition. A shelf stable wine is formulated to be below pH 3.5. This beverage will have increased risk of developing infections if it isn’t refrigerated like a beer.

a) How did I fluke making a mango champagne? I did not add sugar to the bottles.
,,, the beverage was dry/ no residual sugar. A cider would have added priming sugar and then packed in beer bottles or Champaign bottles.

is a watermelon and strawberry wine which I would love to partly convert to champagne in some bottles.
d) Is it possible to do some bottles as wine and some as champagne?
Sure you could do a lab test and have several levels of priming sugar in a bottle. Companies do variable ingredient tests all the time. (note there is math which can give you an guess what the finished cider or wine will be like)

f) Is it ok to keep adding sugar a bit at a time>
This is called step feeding. If targeting a wine the calculated sugar will stop at 28%+/- and if a port is targeted 42+/- percent is targeted.

 

[FlamingoEmporium]

While mango skin is loaded with good things, Mango skin can be an irritant to many people. Mango skin contains urushiol, a cocktail of organic chemicals also found in poison ivy and poison oak.
also pesticides on the skin might be an issue if not washed well.

fruit from the ground probably is fully ripe but I would shy away from the skin. Have you done a batch without ? Where do you live.

 

[winemaker81]

I've made about 7 mango wines now in 250L wheelie bins. After joining this forum I'm in wonderment at how there was anything consumable, let alone palatable wine made... Which leads me to my first question.

My first wine was a rhubarb that was probably comparable to your mango, a testament to the hardiness of the human digestive system!

b) Sugar in the bottles is another way of making champagne isn't it?

It's also how we carbonate beer. I used 1/2 to 3/4 cup sugar in 5 to 6 gallons of beer.

Now the wine I'm currently "Crafting."
c) Is that how you say it?),

Sure. Or making. "Brewing" is not used as it indicates cooking of some sort, and very few wines (other than some hard vegetables) should be cooked.

d) Is it possible to do some bottles as wine and some as champagne?

Absolutely. Ferment the wine dry and clear, and separate the portions. Stabilize and backsweeten the portion that will be still wine, and bottle in regular bottles. Add a bit of sugar (no sorbate) to the sparkling batch and bottle in beer or champagne bottles. You can do a lot of different things, but the easy way is to crown cap the bottles. You must use poptop beer bottles, not screwoff.

Finally... I'd never used a hydrometer until I found out about it in this forum. Then I watched a video on youtube saying it should be on the "80" mark but when I looked, mine read in at 60. By this time it was bubbling at a rate of one bubble every two minutes but I had erred on the side of caution this time and added 10kg of dextrose instead of 12.5kg for the 50L batch.

Be VERY careful of YouTube videos -- there's a boatload of really clueless ones with bad advice. The value of this forum is we spot check each other -- if I say something stupid the others will descend upon me like flamingos on a tyrannosaur. It's pretty gross to watch and there will be no mercy!





The starting SG (Original Gravity) can vary dramatically, depending on many factors. For making a typical table wine, the OG will be between 1.080 and 1.100. This directly affects the ABV, and you can customize it to your own tastes.

Thanks in advance for any assistance. You guys are amazing. I subscribed to show my support as we all should right?

For folks that use the forum, it's good to give a bit back.

 

[FlamingoEmporium]

Aaaaaaaaah . We attack at dawn !

 

[Mango Madness]

Wow, and kudos for being an explorer!
a) probably leftover CO2 from fermentation, your lucky you didn’t have exploding bottles.
b) yes, but also through forced carbonation, search for that phrase. This might be an advanced course for a newbie, but as we’ve seen, you’re not one to avoid a challenge.
c) yes, or fermenting.
d) yes
e) will need someone else to answer, I don’t know.
f) but you need to monitor the SG and possibly add nutrients, additionally things could go wrong (fermentation stops, called a stuck fermentation, which leads to spoilage). That’s in addition to possibly exploding bottles, that’s why champagne bottles are thicker. I’ve not done champagne so there’s probably way more to it then what I’ve written. At least it’s enough to get you started with some search terms.

We should call you Mango the Adventurer!

Thanks heaps for your input and encouraging words Bob.

 

[Mango Madness]

mango will continue to ripen after it is picked. Example:
Store; , , , , SGrav 1.064/ pH 4.2/ TA 0.26%
& 1 week; , SGrav 1.086/ pH 4.26/ TA 0.08% , , , , roughly 24% sugar
For normal wine ripe/ ground ripe is a poor acid! This translates to increased spoilage risk.

What you made; 25kg sugar and 50Kg mango at 24% sugar makes 37Kg fermentable
Your batch is maybe 300Kg liquid and 25Kg pulp ie 12.3% sugars which could make 5.4% alcohol. >…> you made a cider or beer. To get into the wine area the beverage is usually formulated in the 23 to 33% fermentable (potential alcohol).

e) If the recipe says to add sugar, is there any difference in portion size if it's white sugar or dextrose
There is enough variation in different types of fruit and what is fermentable sugar vs flavor solids that we ignore any difference as sucrose/ glucose/ dextrose.

I think I missed acid addition. A shelf stable wine is formulated to be below pH 3.5. This beverage will have increased risk of developing infections if it isn’t refrigerated like a beer.

a) How did I fluke making a mango champagne? I did not add sugar to the bottles.
,,, the beverage was dry/ no residual sugar. A cider would have added priming sugar and then packed in beer bottles or Champaign bottles.

is a watermelon and strawberry wine which I would love to partly convert to champagne in some bottles.
d) Is it possible to do some bottles as wine and some as champagne?
Sure you could do a lab test and have several levels of priming sugar in a bottle. Companies do variable ingredient tests all the time. (note there is math which can give you an guess what the finished cider or wine will be like)

f) Is it ok to keep adding sugar a bit at a time>
This is called step feeding. If targeting a wine the calculated sugar will stop at 28%+/- and if a port is targeted 42+/- percent is targeted.

Wow taught me a lot. Thanks.

 

[Mango Madness]

While mango skin is loaded with good things, Mango skin can be an irritant to many people. Mango skin contains urushiol, a cocktail of organic chemicals also found in poison ivy and poison oak.
also pesticides on the skin might be an issue if not washed well.

fruit from the ground probably is fully ripe but I would shy away from the skin. Have you done a batch without ? Where do you live.

I live in North Queensland, Australia. I found that my wines were better when they were fully ripened and on the ground. What happens if you use fruit that is not fully ripe yet I wonder? I read somewhere that it's the mould on the mango skins that has mould that ruins the batch. I just peel the mangoes and throw them in seeds and all.

 

[Mango Madness]

My first wine was a rhubarb that was probably comparable to your mango, a testament to the hardiness of the human digestive system!


It's also how we carbonate beer. I used 1/2 to 3/4 cup sugar in 5 to 6 gallons of beer.


Sure. Or making. "Brewing" is not used as it indicates cooking of some sort, and very few wines (other than some hard vegetables) should be cooked.


Absolutely. Ferment the wine dry and clear, and separate the portions. Stabilize and backsweeten the portion that will be still wine, and bottle in regular bottles. Add a bit of sugar (no sorbate) to the sparkling batch and bottle in beer or champagne bottles. You can do a lot of different things, but the easy way is to crown cap the bottles. You must use poptop beer bottles, not screwoff.


Be VERY careful of YouTube videos -- there's a boatload of really clueless ones with bad advice. The value of this forum is we spot check each other -- if I say something stupid the others will descend upon me like flamingos on a tyrannosaur. It's pretty gross to watch and there will be no mercy!


View attachment 85694


The starting SG (Original Gravity) can vary dramatically, depending on many factors. For making a typical table wine, the OG will be between 1.080 and 1.100. This directly affects the ABV, and you can customize it to your own tastes.


For folks that use the forum, it's good to give a bit back.

Thanks heaps for that. I did subscribe for a year because of all the help.

 

[Mango Madness]

f) Is it ok to keep adding sugar a bit at a time>
This is called step feeding. If targeting a wine the calculated sugar will stop at 28%+/- and if a port is targeted 42+/- percent is targeted.

So how do I know when I've added enough sugar?

 

[Rice_Guy]

my estimate is that your mango has 263 kg of sugar free liquid. By the numbers to change a beverage with 12% fermentable into 28% fermentable (ie .72 / 72% sugar free liquid) will take another 65 kg of sugar. This will increase the finished volume to about 350 liters so to do this you need about that volume (combined vessels) to change the batch.
As noted some folks aim higher alcohol as 11% about 75kg or 14% about 100kg.

So how do I know when I've added enough sugar?

Normal step feeding traditionally was done with a hydrometer. One would take a right now gravity reading. The process would be add more sugar for example a 2kg bag which has been melted into some of the liquid. The melted sugar is poured into the main beverage and a second gravity is done. We then wait for the yeast to consume sugar till the batch is down to 1.010 or 1.000 at which point we add a second batch of melted sugar. Eventually the yeast are stressed and can not consume all the added sugar so the gravity stays above 1.000 all day and you are done. Yes this is days of feeding! At the start you could increase to a 5 or even 10 kg bag. With high alcohol step feeding THE CLOSER TO END POINT THE HARDER FOR THE YEAST AND SMALLER INCREMENT of sugar,,, otherwise you overshoot producing a sixteen or eighteen percent alcohol that is very sweet.

How? 1) you go with an alcohol goal and stop when you are at 65 or 75kg/ 10 to 12% ABV.
2) you make the highest alcohol and add each day till the yeast are poisoned by the sugar ,,, and the gravity does not decrease in a day.

 

[Mango Madness]

my estimate is that your mango has 263 kg of sugar free liquid. By the numbers to change a beverage with 12% fermentable into 28% fermentable (ie .72 / 72% sugar free liquid) will take another 65 kg of sugar. This will increase the finished volume to about 350 liters so to do this you need about that volume (combined vessels) to change the batch.
As noted some folks aim higher alcohol as 11% about 75kg or 14% about 100kg.

Normal step feeding traditionally was done with a hydrometer. One would take a right now gravity reading. The process would be add more sugar for example a 2kg bag which has been melted into some of the liquid. The melted sugar is poured into the main beverage and a second gravity is done. We then wait for the yeast to consume sugar till the batch is down to 1.010 or 1.000 at which point we add a second batch of melted sugar. Eventually the yeast are stressed and can not consume all the added sugar so the gravity stays above 1.000 all day and you are done. Yes this is days of feeding! At the start you could increase to a 5 or even 10 kg bag. With high alcohol step feeding THE CLOSER TO END POINT THE HARDER FOR THE YEAST AND SMALLER INCREMENT of sugar,,, otherwise you overshoot producing a sixteen or eighteen percent alcohol that is very sweet.

How? 1) you go with an alcohol goal and stop when you are at 65 or 75kg/ 10 to 12% ABV.
2) you make the highest alcohol and add each day till the yeast are poisoned by the sugar ,,, and the gravity does not decrease in a day.

Thanks heaps