Racking

[ZAF]

Dear all,
I have been reading a lot about racking and it seems there is a lack of consistent information out there (or at least my perception of the information is somewhat inconsistent). There are three opinions I found on the web
1- If you are making wine out of a kit or juice (not from actual grapes) your first racking should happen after 2 weeks regardless of the the fermentation stage.
2- first racking should happen once the fermentation has stopped completely.
3- third opinion is somewhere in the middle saying rack after fermentation has stopped or if the sediments have reached 3/4 of an inch (whichever happens first).

Today I have completed 3 weeks of fermentation. The fermentation has slowed down but has not stopped. The airlock is not levelled yet and I can see bubbles. Sediments do not look like they are 3/4 of an inch but I will verify this shortly by taking it out of the dark closet.

Should I just wait until fermentation stops completely before I rack, or should I rack now? My understanding that it is recommended to add a campden tablet in (dosing = 1 tablet per gallon) every time the wine is racked to prevent it from spoiling. Does this recommendation apply if racking is performed prior to completion of fermentation?

I really appreciate this. I just want to make sure that I am not ruining my batch.

 

[Johnd]

Dear all,
I have been reading a lot about racking and it seems there is a lack of consistent information out there (or at least my perception of the information is somewhat inconsistent). There are three opinions I found on the web
1- If you are making wine out of a kit or juice (not from actual grapes) your first racking should happen after 2 weeks regardless of the the fermentation stage.
2- first racking should happen once the fermentation has stopped completely.
3- third opinion is somewhere in the middle saying rack after fermentation has stopped or if the sediments have reached 3/4 of an inch (whichever happens first).

Today I have completed 3 weeks of fermentation. The fermentation has slowed down but has not stopped. The airlock is not levelled yet and I can see bubbles. Sediments do not look like they are 3/4 of an inch but I will verify this shortly by taking it out of the dark closet.

Should I just wait until fermentation stops completely before I rack, or should I rack now? My understanding that it is recommended to add a campden tablet in (dosing = 1 tablet per gallon) every time the wine is racked to prevent it from spoiling. Does this recommendation apply if racking is performed prior to completion of fermentation?

I really appreciate this. I just want to make sure that I am not ruining my batch.

Time has zero to do with when you rack. It's best to rack as your fermentation nears or reaches completion, which is determined by your hydrometer, not by your calendar. Folks here don't agree 100% on what is the right SG to rack at, but to generalize, it's below 1.010.
The reason you're racking is important to understand so you can decide how you want to do it, and the reason is to get your wine into a vessel where you can control oxygen exposure, as well as leaving some of the stinky lees behind.
Personally, I like to rack from a bucket to a carboy while there's still a bit of sugar left, somewhere around 1.000, and I'll let AF finish up in the carboy under airlock, where the final stages of AF are producing CO2 in the airspace to protect the wine.
Having said that, some folks rack a little sooner than 1.010 and do just fine, in my opinion it's risking a wine volcano in the carboy if there's still some vigor left in the yeast. Some folks let their wine totally finish AF in the bucket before racking and do just fine with it, for me, I don't want to risk the exposure to O2. You get to decide for yourself!!!

 

[ZAF]

Thanks @Johnd . When you transfer to a clean carboy do you add campden/kmeta if the fermentation hasn’t completed to help protect again O2? Or do you worry about stopping the fermentation and not add it in this racking?

 

[Johnd]

Thanks @Johnd . When you transfer to a clean carboy do you add campden/kmeta if the fermentation hasn’t completed to help protect again O2? Or do you worry about stopping the fermentation and not add it in this racking?

Your sulfite won’t stop fermentation, though it may stun the yeast a bit, but no, don’t add it until you’ve finished AF. The CO2 still being produced by unfinished fermentation is plenty protection for the interim. A good rule of thumb for “finished”, is a SG below .998 that remains unchanged for three days straight.

 

[winemaker81]

I agree with @Johnd on all points.

Keep in mind that kit instructions are designed to get a complete novice through the wine making process, producing a wine they will be proud of. There are a lot of nuances that kit instructions can't include and still be straightforward.

Rule #1: the yeast is in charge. You can influence it (temperature, adding chemicals, etc), but the fermentation ends when the yeast runs out of sugar to eat OR it produces so much alcohol that it makes its own environment toxic (well, toxic to the yeast). As John said, basing fermentation on elapsed time is wrong. I've had fermentation complete in 4 days, and take as long as a month.

Sure, you'll find disagreement on this forum as to exactly when to rack, but generally between 1.010 and when fermentation is complete is agreed upon.

During fermentation, the expelled CO2 cushions the wine from the air. Air, specifically oxygen, is your enemy -- it oxidizes the wine, so you get the equivalent of rust on steel. Once fermentation completes, that cushion erodes, so you eventually have none. How long does that take? No idea, and I honestly don't care. If I put the wine under airlock shortly before fermentation completes, I eliminate the problem.

Don't add sulfite until fermentation is complete. As John stated, it can stunt the yeast, slowing down the completion.

What is the current specific gravity (SG)? THAT tells you when fermentation is complete. Bubbles in the airlock are not a conclusive answer, as the wine will emit CO2 for some time. The SG always tells the truth.

If the SG is at 0.998 or below and remains there for 3 consecutive days, fermentation is done.

Did you ferment from the beginning in the carboy? That slows things down. You want initial fermentation in an open container (cover with a towel), rack between 1.010 and 1.000 (approximately), and then put it under airlock.

Navigate to my kit wine list and read my notes on each batch. This is NOT exciting reading and may help if you have insomnia, but it will provide real time frames.

Please note that once fermentation is done, all time frames in the kit instructions are minimums. You can go longer -- some folks bulk age their kit wines for 12+ months. Shorter is not recommended.

 

[ZAF]

Thanks @winemaker81 . I am not using a kit, rather grape juice. My hydrometer got damaged and I ordered another one. Thats why I can't take a SG reading at the moment.
I kept it open to air (no airlock for 48h) then put the airlock on. It was bubbling rapidly for a good week then started to slow down. Now my airlock fluid level is starting to level back. I can still see bubbles going towards the surface so I know fermentation has not stopped. There is a layer of sediment at the bottom of my carboy.
It has been over 3 weeks since the start of the fermentation, and I am planning to bulk age after racking, which I won't do until fermentation stops.

 

[winemaker81]

@ZAF, no problem. The difference between a kit and juice is that the kit has been adjusted so sugar, acid, and everything is balanced.

That said, the overall process is the same.

When your new hydrometer arrives, check SG. If it's 1.010 or below, rack immediately. If it's below 0.998, allow small headspace in the carboy. If it's 1.000 or above, headspace is ok.

Let's hold further advice until you have the hydrometer.

 

[ZAF]

Hi Guys,
I thought I'd give you guys an update on the process of my current batch.
A bit of a background. This batch made out of grape juice. fermentation started May 22nd.
Unfortunately I don't have a starting SG. The reason is that my hydrometer broke and I bought another from from amazon. i did not notice that it was a PR/TR hydrometer until I have already prepared the juice with the sugar in the fermenter. The mix was 2 cups of sugar in approximately 3 L of 100% red grape juice.
Just over 2 weeks ago I racked the wine for the first time because I felt the segmentation at the bottle were rising and added approx 300 ml of tea for tannins. That involved me dipping a tea bag in boiling water for 6h then removed the bad and poured it into the carboy. I did not have a hydrometer so i could not measure SG.

Ever since the first rack, I did not see any bobble in the carboy but my airlock fluid level was not levelled. I attributed it to probably being trapped CO2. So I decided to take a SG = 1.026.
I tasted it and I must say it tastes nice. Citrous. The tannins did give the wine a nice mouth feel. I also might sense a fain fuzz. I am not sure if that is just because I saw the SG reading or a real fuzz.

We are now day 42 since the beginning of the fermentation.

Do we think the SG reading is related to tannins two weeks ago or sign of on going fermentation?

Thanks

 

[Scooter68]

Racking from bucket to carboy is normally done, as Johnd said, based on the SG.
1) Some folks do it a specific SG number like 1.010.
2) Some let the ferment complete, (Sometimes accidentally when you have a rapid ferment that finishes before your realize it)
3) I personally do it based on the SG AND the amount of activity Foam in evidence). A ferment at an SG of 1.010 with LOTS of foam still present is may overflow if racked into a carboy - in that situation I wait until the foam dies way down or the ferment completes (Foam rarely still around then)

Keep in mind there is also the process of fermenting Sur Lies where the grape skins are left in after the ferment completes. I can't address the details of that since I don't do any ferments that way.

So as also mentioned with the possible exception of Sur Lies fermenting, time is not a factor on when to rack - ever.
As to adding K-Meta - I would never add that to an active ferment as it might mess with the yeast activity and produce undesired results. Only add the K-meta after the ferment completes.

 

[sour_grapes]

We are now day 42 since the beginning of the fermentation.

Do we think the SG reading is related to tannins two weeks ago or sign of on going fermentation?

The tannins are not responsible for the high SG. Their effect on SG will be utterly negligible.

My opinion is that you have a stuck fermentation. That is, your yeast, for whatever reason, have died.

When you tasted it, did it taste sweet?

If it were my batch, I would make a starter to try to get fermentation going again: https://eckraus.com/using-yeast-starters-for-improved-fermentation/

 

[KCCam]

So I decided to take a SG = 1.026.

Do you really mean 1.026? That seems very high. Does it taste sweet? Tannins, per se, do not change the SG. Adding the water would lower the SG, assuming it started over 1.000 (the SG of water).

 

[KCCam]

Do you really mean 1.026? That seems very high. Does it taste sweet? Tannins, per se, do not change the SG. Adding the water would lower the SG, assuming it started over 1.000 (the SG of water).

Honest, I posted that before I read sour_grapes post!

 

[sour_grapes]

Honest, I posted that before I read sour_grapes post!

Yes, I only beat you by 1 minute if you look at the time stamps!

But, yes, his SG does really appear to be 1.02x in the picture of the hydrometer.

 

[stickman]

Hopefully the hydrometer is actually floating and not resting on the bottom test container.

 

[ZAF]

yes its actually floating.
The wine tastes sweet, but not dessert wine sweet. The airlock is not levelled yet. So there is some CO2 coming out but I actually can't see bubbles in the carboy.

@sour_grapes I was thinking about restarting my fermentation. I was thinking about starting fermentation in a small cup and then add it to the carboy to restart fermentation. What do you think guys?

 

[sour_grapes]

@sour_grapes I was thinking about restarting my fermentation. I was thinking about starting fermentation in a small cup and then add it to the carboy to restart fermentation. What do you think guys?

That is close to what the instructions in the link I included in post #10 says. I am confused why you are asking me again?

 

[ZAF]

@sour_grapes sorry I wasn't clear. I don't have years nutrients, so i was thinking about activating yeast and then adding it to the carboy instead.

 

[DizzyIzzy]

The tannins are not responsible for the high SG. Their effect on SG will be utterly negligible.

My opinion is that you have a stuck fermentation. That is, your yeast, for whatever reason, have died.

When you tasted it, did it taste sweet?

If it were my batch, I would make a starter to try to get fermentation going again: https://eckraus.com/using-yeast-starters-for-improved-fermentation/

Sours grapes, I found that link very informative. Have printed it off and will add to my WMT binder........Thanks.........................Dizzy

 

[KCCam]

@sour_grapes sorry I wasn't clear. I don't have years nutrients, so i was thinking about activating yeast and then adding it to the carboy instead.

If it were me, I would (and have) follow @sour_grapes’ advice. Get some yeast nutrients and/or the Quick Starter mentioned in the link he provided. Just adding more yeast might work, but something stopped the current yeast from multiplying. It could be lack of nutrients, or pH, or temperature, or any number of things, but simply throwing more yeast at it is unlikely to give you a complete fermentation, IMHO. And it won’t give you any information about what’s wrong if it doesn’t work. Check this site or Google for “stuck fermentation”. You can learn more about wine-making from trying to fix one problem than from making a dozen successful batches.

 

[ZAF]

Thanks guys for all the help.
When you add the starter / nutrient do you leave the carboy open to air (with a cloth on top of it) or do you keep it under airlock?