Raising Brix - More Sugar or More Concentrate?

[hornpipe2]

Playing around with an Excel sheet I made, and I have questions : )
Suppose I want to use Welch's white grape concentrate to make 48oz (3/4gal) of 12.5% wine.

Using the standard conversion rate of 16.83g/L sugar ferments to 1% ABV,
* It takes ~597grams sugar to hit 12.5% ABV here, and
* One can of Welch's grape supplies 222g sugar.

Clearly, I'm short. There are options:
1. Stick to 1 can per Welch's instructions, and add sugar to reach the desired amount.
2. Use as many cans as it takes... here, 2.7 cans... but the must is now 2/3 concentrate and 1/3 water.

On to the questions!
* Should I go with option 1, 2, or something in between? Any recommendations from others who have done this?
* Would Option 1 taste OK? Strictly, one can won't even reach 5% ABV, wouldn't it basically taste like bitter water?
* Could Option 2 even ferment, with as syrupy as it is, and would it taste OK?

EDIT: Excel sheet attached.

View attachment wine_calc.zip

 

[cintipam]

Hi hornpipe2

I've made several batches of wine using concentrate. The usual rule of thumb is 4 cans per gallon. Not sure why you only want to make 3/4 gallon, but if so I'd use 3 cans, and if brix is too high for you then add a little water to bring it down. Generally wine needs a lot more flavor to carry thru the fermentation process. And it shouldn't be syrupy unless you are using something totally diff than the frozen cans of concentrate from the grocery store.

Good luck, you'll be fine

Pam in cinti

 

[hornpipe2]

Thanks, that makes sense - I shouldn't have to add any sugar then.

BTW I picked 3/4gal because one can of concentrate makes 48oz of grape juice. Easier math : ) For 1gallon at 12.5% Excel says to use 3.58 cans and no sugar. 4cans + extra water would have the same effect.

Actually, I'll edit my first post to attach my spreadsheet, if anyone else wants to try some numbers.

 

[wineforfun]

Playing around with an Excel sheet I made, and I have questions : )
Suppose I want to use Welch's white grape concentrate to make 48oz (3/4gal) of 12.5% wine.

Using the standard conversion rate of 16.83g/L sugar ferments to 1% ABV,
* It takes ~597grams sugar to hit 12.5% ABV here, and
* One can of Welch's grape supplies 222g sugar.

Clearly, I'm short. There are options:
1. Stick to 1 can per Welch's instructions, and add sugar to reach the desired amount.
2. Use as many cans as it takes... here, 2.7 cans... but the must is now 2/3 concentrate and 1/3 water.

On to the questions!
* Should I go with option 1, 2, or something in between? Any recommendations from others who have done this?
* Would Option 1 taste OK? Strictly, one can won't even reach 5% ABV, wouldn't it basically taste like bitter water?
* Could Option 2 even ferment, with as syrupy as it is, and would it taste OK?

EDIT: Excel sheet attached.

I would wait for @JohnT to chime in, he is our resident Welch's expert.

 

[wineforfun]

Thanks, that makes sense - I shouldn't have to add any sugar then.

BTW I picked 3/4gal because one can of concentrate makes 48oz of grape juice. Easier math : ) For 1gallon at 12.5% Excel says to use 3.58 cans and no sugar. 4cans + extra water would have the same effect.

Actually, I'll edit my first post to attach my spreadsheet, if anyone else wants to try some numbers.

Not quite following why you are using an Excel sheet but as Pam has said, use 4 cans of concentrate per gallon. With that said, you may have to add some sugar, depending on what ABV you are aiming for. The easiest way to do any of this is by using your hydrometer, assuming you have one. If not, get one.

 

[JohnT]

I would wait for @JohnT to chime in, he is our resident Welch's expert.

Where is that unlike button

 

[hornpipe2]

Not quite following why you are using an Excel sheet

It's just for planning. I know reality is much detached from theoretical and a hydrometer will give accurate results for a real batch, but I just want to get in the ballpark before gathering any ingredients.

Also... I'm an engineer by trade, it's what I do

use 4 cans of concentrate per gallon. With that said, you may have to add some sugar, depending on what ABV you are aiming for.

Confused again Is that "4 cans of concentrate, enough water to make up a gallon" (e.g. 48oz concentrate + 16oz water) or is that "4 cans of concentrate for every gallon of water" (e.g. 48oz concentrate + 64oz water)?

The first ratio will be slightly hot at 14% so can't see adding more sugar to that. The second would work out to 8%.

 

[Rodnboro]

That's 4 cans, then add water to 1 gallon. This wine is best if you do not go over 1.085 on starting sg.

 

[seth8530]

Nothing wrong with predicting your sugar additions so long as you verify after the fact.

I have never made a Welch's wine, but I will chime in on the original question. If you add sugar you will primarily end up increasing ABV. If you add concentrate, you will increase ABV and everything else including acid. What this really means is that you have to ask this question before everytime you do it.

 

[wineforfun]

It's just for planning. I know reality is much detached from theoretical and a hydrometer will give accurate results for a real batch, but I just want to get in the ballpark before gathering any ingredients.

Also... I'm an engineer by trade, it's what I do


Confused again Is that "4 cans of concentrate, enough water to make up a gallon" (e.g. 48oz concentrate + 16oz water) or is that "4 cans of concentrate for every gallon of water" (e.g. 48oz concentrate + 64oz water)?

The first ratio will be slightly hot at 14% so can't see adding more sugar to that. The second would work out to 8%.

haha
I work in an engineering department(I am not an engineer) so now the Excel sheet makes perfect sense.

As Rodnboro stated, that is 4 cans per gallon of water(with the oz. of concentrate included in the calculation).
Basically, if I am making a 2 gallon batch, I use 8 cans of concentrate(12oz. cans) and then approximately 190oz. water. This gives me approx. 286 oz. of liquid(2 gal. + 30oz. extra). I do this so I will have 2 full gallons after the rackings involved to get to the finished product and still has a very full flavor.

As far as the ABV, that is determined by how much additional sugar you add. With the 4 cans/gal. setup, you won't add very much sugar to get the SG to say 1.090-1.100. This is the SG that I prefer.

Hope this makes sense.

 

[Julie]

Hi hornpipe2,

Always remember making wine is not about getting your must to a certain brix. It is about full flavor going along with that alcohol level. My first is always to add more fruit or concentrates, then worry about how much sugar.

 

[olusteebus]

What I do is determine the grams of sugar in a can of concentrate and then use winecalc to determine how much I need. Grams of sugar are in the nutrition data.