Rattlesnake Hills Malbec

[Johnd]

Both the conical and the 3 gallon carboy are in MLF right now. Knowing that, is it still your recommendation?

After you press, and AF is nearly over, when you do that 3 day racking off of gross lees, that’s the time to eliminate headspace.

 

[mainshipfred]

Not that I have any proof it's required but during MLF I always keep my headspace to one inch or less due to the lack of sulfites, usually less than that.

 

[crushday]

@Johnd and @mainshipfred - this is testing all of my previous understanding of the use of an airlock. Theoretically, if the wine is throwing CO2, which is heavier than O2, isn’t the headspace filled with wine preserving CO2? I have both under airlock reporting every 10-12 seconds.

Just trying to understand.

 

[Boatboy24]

If your MLF is taking a number of weeks, theoretically, the wine could completely degas and leave itself exposed. I also make sure that the wine is topped up, once I rack off the lees a couple days post-press.

 

[Johnd]

@Johnd and @mainshipfred - this is testing all of my previous understanding of the use of an airlock. Theoretically, if the wine is throwing CO2, which is heavier than O2, isn’t the headspace filled with wine preserving CO2? I have both under airlock reporting every 10-12 seconds.

Just trying to understand.

Theoretically, this isn't even true, as @sourgrapes has posted many times, there's more of a mixing effect than a settling effect with the gases in the headspace, and this CO2 production will slow and stop soon enough. When your wine is producing large quantities of CO2, your level of protection is much higher than the little bit produced by MLF. As @Boatboy24 noted, once you rack off of the gross lees (2-3 days after pressing), and MLF is continuing, your wine will likely go weeks / months before getting racked and sulfited for the first time, that's why it's good practice to go ahead and get that headspace dealt with at that time.

 

[mainshipfred]

You are correct in MLF will give off CO2 although the levels are much smaller than in AF. Perhaps you could compare it to what kit instructions call secondary. The secondary fermenter is always recemmended to be topped up due to the lessened production of CO2. Similar to wine from grapes where MLF is considered secondary. In my opinion the amount of CO2 given off in the lengthly process of MLF is not sufficient to protect the wine. Again, I have no proof.

 

[crushday]

White flag...I give up!

I’ll rack on Saturday and get everything topped up, under lock.

But, it’s a bit of a physics head scratcher for me considering an airlock is essentially a one way valve.

Thanks for weighing in.

 

[cmason1957]

White flag...I give up!

I’ll rack on Saturday and get everything topped up, under lock.

But, it’s a bit of a physics head scratcher for me considering an airlock is essentially a one way valve.

Thanks for weighing in.

No head scratching necessary. MLF does give off some CO2, just not nearly as much (probably 1% of the amount or less) as AF gives off. You racked, headspace full of Air now. Some very little bit of CO2 is coming off. It DOES NOT blanket, nothing does really, except for a very short amount of time. It all mixes together. The airlock just keep new outside air from coming in, if you are lucky enough, it isn't a perfectly sealed system and the leaky part is the interface fit between the carboy and the bung.

 

[mainshipfred]

White flag...I give up!

I’ll rack on Saturday and get everything topped up, under lock.

But, it’s a bit of a physics head scratcher for me considering an airlock is essentially a one way valve.

Thanks for weighing in.

Sorry, I can't totally disregard your thoughts, I just would hate to see all that good looking wine go bad.

 

[Johnd]

White flag...I give up!

I’ll rack on Saturday and get everything topped up, under lock.

But, it’s a bit of a physics head scratcher for me considering an airlock is essentially a one way valve.

Thanks for weighing in.

LOL!!! No need for a white flag, just get topped off!! And remember, even the best airlock / bung assemblies can leak.............

 

[CDrew]

Looking good. But I have to respectfully agree that your carboy should be topped off. Or, that the contents of the carboy distributed into smaller topped off gallons. CO2 will not blanket the surface. As soon as it is released from the wine, there is nothing to prevent it from dispersing in the air generally, which means the O2 in the air, can freely disperse into the CO2.

Now if you could completely fill that space with CO2 and exclude all Oxygen, it would likely be ok for a few days or even a week. But even with a working airlock and good seals, O2 can dissolve into the airlock fluid and find it''s way in small amounts into the headspace. The more surface area you have, the more significant that problem is. Air is bad at this point. You have the least surface area, when your carboy is full.

But white flags not needed. I am totally enjoying someone(you) making a fine wine 6 months offset from everyone else. These frozen buckets look like a very viable option for people without access to grapes in season. Not inexpensive, but a nice looking product.

 

[crushday]

Don’t interpret the flag as a towel thrown. I’m only surrendering to the collective wisdom and raise the white flag of submission. I’d be a fool to ignore the knowledge and understanding of those whom are many months and years ahead of me.

Like many on this site, I am throughly enjoying my journey as a vintner. This string has been very instructive and I’m grateful for everyone who has taken time to offer help.

Much appreciation.

 

[wxtrendsguy]

YES!

 

[Johnd]

Don’t interpret the flag as a towel thrown. I’m only surrendering to the collective wisdom and raise the white flag of submission. I’d be a fool to ignore the knowledge and understanding of those whom are many months and years ahead of me.

Like many on this site, I am throughly enjoying my journey as a vintner. This string has been very instructive and I’m grateful for everyone who has taken time to offer help.

Much appreciation.

Some hard headed people (me) learn best from their own mistakes. Much less painful to learn from others mistakes!!

 

[crushday]

Almost no headspace on this carboy of Malbec! The two others are close but not showing in the airlock like this one.

Still getting activity but slowed drastically.

 

[cmason1957]

So you are making the assumption that you can trust your airlock not to lie to you. I have found them to be utterly useless in that regard, to many variables, my hyrdrometer reading have never let me down in knowing if things are happening. Airlocks have.

 

[crushday]

Thanks, @cmason1957 ! My hydrometer read .992 when I transferred to carboys and I’m now in the later stages of MLF, I think. I coinoculated with CH-16 the day after I pitched the yeast. I plan on racking this again in late August or early September.

This will find its home in a barrel in July of 2021 for twelve months before taking a long nap in a bottle.

 

[Johnd]

Consider running your chromatography pretty soon, you should be done, or pretty close to it by now. Then you can start your 2 week clock for adding SO2.

 

[crushday]

Update: Been in a barrel since May 13th, 2020. During top up I snuck a taste. It’s very good. Very excited about this wine. Mrs. B likes it too!