Result of using bourbon barrel

[wood1954]

Today I tasted the Marquette wine in the used 15 gallon bourbon barrel. It’s been about a month in barrel. It has a mild ashtray taste . No ashtray taste is ever good. Very disappointed. I’ll rack it all tomorrow to carboys and hope the taste goes away over the next nine months. Anyone want a used bourbon barrel?

 

[ChuckD]

Today I tasted the Marquette wine in the used 15 gallon bourbon barrel. It’s been about a month in barrel. It has a mild ashtray taste . No ashtray taste is ever good. Very disappointed. I’ll rack it all tomorrow to carboys and hope the taste goes away over the next nine months. Anyone want a used bourbon barrel?

Have you considered disassembling it and remove the charring.

 

[wood1954]

Actually yes, after I clean it I’ll take it apart, let it dry and use a hand held power planer or else a shave hook. Two weeks ago it tasted of bourbon I should have racked it then.

 

[ChuckD]

I have never worked on barrels or seen how deep the charring is, but my first thought would be to remove one end and try a scraper or a grinder with a flap sanding wheel… maybe you can avoid complete disassembly.

 

[winechef]

why use Bourbon barrel. I'd use my wine barrel for Bourbon but would think that the Bourbon would not add to delicate wine

 

[wood1954]

why use Bourbon barrel. I'd use my wine barrel for Bourbon but would think that the Bourbon would not add to delicate wine

I was hoping to remove most of the bourbon taste by soaking the barrel with water first, that mostly worked, but the char taste is way too strong now. I’ve tasted commercial wine from a bourbon barrel and it was pretty good.

 

[wood1954]

I have never worked on barrels or seen how deep the charring is, but my first thought would be to remove one end and try a scraper or a grinder with a flap sanding wheel… maybe you can avoid complete disassembly.

The char is very thick, looks like charcoal. I’m a little worried the staves will be too thin, and allow too much oxygen transfer.

 

[ratflinger]

Yeah, I don't think wine barrels get charred.

 

[ibglowin]

Yeah, I don't think wine barrels get charred.

Yep, Wine barrels are "toasted" (lighter, slower, lower temp). Whiskey barrels are (heavier, hotter temp) "charred"

 

[StimVino]

I was hoping to remove most of the bourbon taste by soaking the barrel with water first, that mostly worked, but the char taste is way too strong now. I’ve tasted commercial wine from a bourbon barrel and it was pretty good

Not a bad thought to make a strong red with a little bourbon flavor. I did a Primitivo with bourbon soaked oak cubes 3 years ago that is really coming into its prime. ( I made the cubes, but thats thats a whole other story.) It was inspired by a Washington winery called Kestrel that used bourbon oak barrels for aging reds. I think the bottle was from 2013 and was a really memorable wine. Yours probably just sat too long in a smaller size barrel. Ive heard CA winemakers use the term ‘ash tray’ flavor to describe smoke tainted wine. Maybe there is a remedy out there.

 

[David Violante]

@VinesnBines has this ever happened to you with your bourbon barrels? I have no barrel experience and am just now moving into that realm. I am about a week or so away from getting a 10G bourbon barrel and don’t want to run into the same issue.

 

[VinesnBines]

I have four bourbon barrels holding wine.
Barrel #1 is a 10 gallon bourbon barrel that was last used for maple syrup. I cleaned it with Barrel Oxyfresh and fermented a cider in the barrel and didn’t get any ash flavor and got less maple than I hoped for. It now has 2023 Chambourcin -filled on November 20. I’ll check the small and taste next week..

Barrel #2 is another 10 gallon that had a STRONG bourbon smell and the rinse water was very dark. I cleaned it with Barrel Oxyfresh and filled with 2022 Chambourcin on October 26. I tasted it yesterday and it didn’t have any ashy smell or flavor.

Barrels #3 and #4 are 15 gallon bourbon and rye barrels. I didn’t use Barrel Oxyfresh on either but rinsed well. Neither had much whiskey smell and the rinse water was clear. I filled both on December 13. I’ll check them both next week. I’m a little concerned as well but we’ll see what is going on after 3 1/2 weeks.

If you are really worried, I suggest cleaning with Barrel Oxyfreas and soaking for a while with Kmeta and citric acid. You can do like I did and age a cider or a couple cheap kits (white or red) to pull out any char flavors.

I’m surprised that wood1954 had this problem; I expected after a couple years of bourbon the char flavor would be gone. If I find my 15 gallon barrels are giving off an ashy flavor, I plan to rack off the wine and hit them hard with Barrel Oxyfresh and soak good with the Kmeta/citric acid solution for a few weeks then try again with another unbarreled batch.

I’ll update next Monday after I check the other three barrels.

 

[VinesnBines]

And my suggestion for wood1954 is to try the Barrel Oxyfresh then run something expendable like a cider from frozen apple concentrate, through the barrel. That’s a lot less work. I expect it can be neutralized. Google it too! I expect the internet will cough up suggestions.

If I have problems I’ll call Midwest Barrels where mine were purchased for ideas and suggestions. Beer is an idea but then I’m not sure we can turn it back to wine usage.

 

[David Violante]

Thank you for sharing your experiences… As with all of this there is quite a bit of intuition with what you have or are presented with, where you want to be, and the big question is how do you get there given the other two. Very much looking forward to hearing how you find your vinos!

 

[David Violante]

Oh… and Merry Christmas to me from the Mrs! I rinsed and swelled it based on your directions by immersing it completely in water, then letting it sit with water. It leaked a little with wine in it, but I attributed that to overpressure from the wine expanding a little. It was sitting on a shelf at 62F and on the bench it’s 65F. I’ll seal those areas when they’re completely dry with some beeswax. Are there any issues with the front spigot or should I try to cap that hole off?

 

[JustinTG]

FWIW, I had a similar experience and posted my questions and results here in case it helps. It might be too late but I did notice after bottling, some of the bourbon flavor faded. Hope it's helpful.

Thread 'Make Bourbon Barrel Less Bourbony' Make Bourbon Barrel Less Bourbony

 

[David Violante]

Thread 'Make Bourbon Barrel Less Bourbony' Make Bourbon Barrel Less Bourbony

Great thread thank you… also great manual posted there by Stickman~

 

[JBP]

Oh my - now I am getting nervous. I filled my fresh-dump bourbon barrel with a syrah a little over a week ago after swelling and rinsing out well (no Barrel Oxyfresh or cleaner). Looking forward to hearing @VinesnBines update on Monday. And suspect I will be checking mine sooner rather than later.

 

[VinesnBines]

I’m not overly concerned. I would need to check for over oaking in a new barrel and cleaned to keep the barrels topped up.

 

[winemaker81]

I’m surprised that wood1954 had this problem; I expected after a couple years of bourbon the char flavor would be gone. If I find my 15 gallon barrels are giving off an ashy flavor, I plan to rack off the wine and hit them hard with Barrel Oxyfresh and soak good with the Kmeta/citric acid solution for a few weeks then try again with another unbarreled batch.

The age of the barrel makes a difference. For bourbon, the barrel can only be used once as bourbon requires a new barrel. From what I've read, most are at least 3 yo, so the barrels are well into neutral, but for other whiskey's it's possible the barrel is only a year or two old. @wood1954 may have a younger barrel.

If it were me, I'd do what you did and put in a lesser wine at first so if the flavoring isn't optimal, I won't feel back about 10-15 gallons of cooking wine ...