Rookie Year

[PolishWineP]

If that's your rookie year, I can hardly wait to see what happens next year! Good job and welcome!

 

[v1rotate]

Thanks again to everyone. Need an opinion, really - how long should we wait on the wines we have bottled before enjoying them? I know about patience but this stuff looks so good!

Welcome to the forum, Jeff. 8 kits with only 1 question is very impressive!

I think it is great to let all your wines age a year before you start drinking them. There is a noticeable improvement in the 3 batches I made that are at or near that point.

However, as a new winemaker it is a little much to ask to wait a full year before you can enjoy any of the wine you made. My philosophy is to bottle 3 splits (375ml bottles) with each batch and start sampling them at 6 months. I'm told they age just a little bit faster than the 750ml bottles, so they give you a nice preview of what is to come.

Certainly try to have at least a case of each batch set aside for drinking after it ages 1 year. At the rate you are going, it won't be long before you can try to set aside at least 1 case to drink at the 2 year point.

My advice is to make way more wine than you can drink/give away until you reach the point of having quite a selection of well aged wines. I made 16 kits my first year and I'm on track to make 20 more by the end of my 2nd year, which is in May. It is getting a lot easier to age all the new batches.

I'll look forward to seeing pictures of your new wine cellar when completed.

Cheers!

 

[jspang]

Thanks again to everyone. Jim your thinking is right on track with what I was hoping for. Just make as much as I can and then in couple years have a great reserve and still enjoy maiking some wine. Questions this year have been answered by George and mostly by everyone on this forum, I didn't really ask any questions, just when I got confused I just came here and started reading and it always is in here somewhere. I am making the MM R Amarone with raisins and it's in day 3. I read on another thread from ibglowin the recommendation to wait and keep things in the primary longer, this is my first batch with raisins but I did have another batch, maybe with the grape pack that did give me a volcano during the transfer so maybe this is a good idea? Any thoughts?

 

[vcasey]

I rarely rack to the secondary before the wine has finished fermenting and never had a problem. I believe Mosti has you rack it a bit to soon and when you add the nutrient plus the air from racking into a container with less space wine volcanoes erupt, and I don't want to lose any of my wine! Another advantage is leaving it in the primary also makes degassing a little easier.
BTW I made this kit a couple of years ago and it is fantastic, Mosti really got this right.
VC

 

[v1rotate]

Correct me, someone, if I am wrong, but if you wait until the SG is down to 1.000 there shouldn't be enough fermentation remaining to cause a volcano when you rack to secondary. I am leery about fermenting until dry in the primary bucket. I know a lot of people do it with few problems, but Tim Vandergrift of WE stated on another forum

"Please don't do 14-day primaries with my
kits: if you're having gas saturation problems, start your fermentations off at
75F (measured in the must) and maintain them at 72-75 throughout. You'll never
have a gas problem again."

Now, I don't know if I agree that gas problems would be eliminated, but Tim is pretty much of a guru in my book, and if he says not to do 14 day primaries with WE kits then I won't do it. I am pleased with my results with the WE kits I've done so far and I have always racked by day 7. Now, maybe with a CC or Mosti kit I might try the extended primary. In fact the CC Washington Merlot I got recently has an addendum to the instructions to leave the must in the primary for 10-12 days for better results, so I am planning on 12 days for that kit.

 

[vcasey]

What Tim doesn't know .............
I have used this method with all my kits, RJ, Mosti, Heron Bay, CC and WE. This was the standard for all the RJ kits for a long time and I started making those before WE. And yes I am most likely risking the warranty, just like when you change yeast or use a different oaking method. My understanding is that many folks were continuing to open the lids on the fermenters to check the wine leaving the wine somewhat unprotected as the fermentation slows down. This does not eliminate the need to degas your wine, but I noticed a difference in mine so it does help and I have a steady 75F must temps all year.
Either method will work and produce great wines. You need to find what works best for you. Still think Mosti needs to think again about transfering the wine so quickly. Wine belongs in a glass not on the floor.
VC

 

[v1rotate]

So VC, what do you think the chances are of a volcano if I transfer the must as soon as it hits 1.000?

 

[grapeman]

Personally I move the kits over before they get down to 1.010 and usually 1.020. I have never had a wine volcano from a kit by transferring then. It gives them a little extra bit of stirring up the lees that way and gets a bit of oxygen in ther to finish fermenting strongly. I have tried a couple kits to ferment all the way and they had a funny smell at transfer- probably caused by a sluggish finish.


Use what works for you in your environment with your equipment. if you have a minor problem, try changing something like transfer time. You will be a pro in no time.

 

[Tom]

I say ZERO chance. I transfer all my wines @ 1.010-1.020. Where the problem occures is when you degas. If you degas and start the drill on high.. watch out !

 

[vcasey]

I would agree with tepe, most of the volatile fermenting has finished so racking then you should be fine.
I think, with only a couple of exceptions, most of my wines ferment rather fast no matter what yeast I use so the wine really does not sit on the gross lees very long. Perhaps that may be part of the reason I have not noticed any weird smells. Like appleman said you just need to find out what works best for you and that is the best method.
VC

 

[ibglowin]

"Please don't do 14-day primaries with my
kits:

Who said anything about 14 day Primaries? We are only talking about NOT transferring to Secondary at the Mosti recommended 1.05-1.04 value and transferring about 1-2 days later when the SG hits 1-02-1.01. This should only be about 5 days in Primary at the most.

The volcano happens when the oak is added right after the yeast nutrient. It does not happen immediately after the addition of just the nutrient .

 

[jspang]

So when I rack to the carboy which might be tonight, to be safe and eliminate all the problems should I just pull a bottle off and set it aside to eliminate the possible volcano and add it later? This was shown on the video's George has on the web site. This is Day 4 for MMR Amarone w/raisins.

 

[v1rotate]

Who said anything about 14 day Primaries? We are only talking about NOT transferring to Secondary at the Mosti recommended 1.05-1.04 value and transferring about 1-2 days later when the SG hits 1-02-1.01. This should only be about 5 days in Primary at the most.

In the post immediately prior to mine, vcasey stated:

I rarely rack to the secondary before the wine has finished fermenting and never had a problem.

In my mind this is a 14 day fermentation in the primary bucket. I agree that it makes more sense with a Mosti kit (which I haven't had the pleasure of making yet) to wait until the SG drops to at least 1.02, Mike. I didn't realize their instructions called for racking at 1.05 to 1.04.

Sorry if I was unclear.

 

[v1rotate]

So when I rack to the carboy which might be tonight, to be safe and eliminate all the problems should I just pull a bottle off and set it aside to eliminate the possible volcano and add it later? This was shown on the video's George has on the web site. This is Day 4 for MMR Amarone w/raisins.

Jeff, it sounds to me like it would be best to wait until the SG drops to 1.02-1.01 to rack to the carboy if you can. That way you shouldn't have to bother with setting a bottle aside.

 

[vcasey]

If you are adding the nutrient and/or the oak you may want to use a bottle or 2 (a glass gallon jug filled 3/4 would be great) and then add it in once everything settles.
VC

 

[ibglowin]

Mike. I didn't realize their instructions called for racking at 1.05 to 1.04.Sorry if I was unclear.

My bad, I should have pointed out 14 days in Primary (which is what VC does) is definitely out of the norm for most of us but it goes to show you how much room for deviation there is with all of this and still have great success.

Cellar Craft calls for transferring to secondary at ~1.00 or around day 6-7.

Mosti is a little different in that they are now including the yeast nutrient and a recommendation of an initial rack at ~1.04-1.05.

I remember following the directions to the letter on my first Mosti kit and watching 2 cups of my precious All Juice Amarone spew out the top the moment i added in the Oak and stirred it in.......

Like I said in another thread, "what were they thinking"?

 

[vcasey]

Of all the kits I have made, the MMR Amarome had the most active fermentation. I am glad I used a 10 gallon primary and even then it threatened to spill over and I am glad I left it in there instead of racking because it remained very active for a couple of weeks. I just find that this method works best for me and believe it or not I have no trouble snapping down the lid and walking away. Just ask 2 of my cysers that hung out in the primary for a couple of months!
VC

 

[jspang]

As I stated earlier I'm in Day 4 and I just checked it and I'm at 1.05 (started at 1.10) and still a lot of activity so I might just watch it for a day or so then do the transfer. I did something last night, hopefully it was OK, just seemed to make sense. My raisins were in cheesecloth for the first 3 days, I removed them and I read in the instructions to make sure they are squeezed extremely well, so I took them out last night and crushed them and put them back into the cheesecloth and back into the primary. Sound ok?

 

[Tom]

Dont know why you did that? What do the directions say as to when to remove them?
I would rack @ 1.015-1.020. Dont go by # of days as all fermentations are a little different.

 

[jspang]

Well, I guess I thought it would open up the raisins and let the juice get to them better, it's still in the cheesecloth so there really isn't a mess. I'll keep an eye on the sg and transfer in that range. Thanks.